Democrats in 2008

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2008-04-24T01:07:00.000-07:00

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[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary and Hitler

2008-04-24T00:20:00.000-07:00

HILLARY CLINTON VOTED TO INVADE IRAQ. SHE MUST HAVE REALIZED SHE WANTED THE
POWER TO LIE AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY IN THE WRONG DIRECTION IN 2008. HILLARY IS A
DIVIDER AND CAN NOT BEAT JOHN MCCAIN! SHE HAS LESS EXPERIENCE THAN BARACK
OBAMA AND CARES MORE ABOUT POWER AND CONTROLLING YOU AND I THAN SHE DOES
ABOUT YOU AND I!

SHE ALSO HAS MADE A LOT OF MONEY IN PARTNERSHIP WITH A RADICAL DUBAI SHEIK
THAT HATES ISREAL AND HAS STATED IT SHOULD BE DESTROYED! IS HILLARY A CLOSET
ANTI-SEMITE? HER RECORD REFLECTS LACK LUSTER SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL. HER ATTEMPT
TO BOMB IRAN WAS A CLEAR PANDER TO THE JEWISH VOTE IN ORDER TO MAKE PEOPLE
FORGET THAT SHE IS A RABID ANTISEMITE.

BILL CLINTON DID NOT SUPPORT ISRAEL UNTIL HIS FINAL YEARS. ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO
HIDE HIS ANTI SEMITE MANTRA. HILLARY CLINTON PRAISED HITLAR IN A SPEACH IN 1974.
SHE SAID HE WAS CORRECT IN MANY OF HIS POLICIES BUT DID NOT SPECIFY WHICH
POLICYS.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, catpurdy@... wrote:
>
> She called for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to resign.
> She launched an internet campaign to gain petition signatures towards calling
> for the resignation of Attorney General Gonzales.
>
> She also voted against the confirmation of John Roberts, while Obama voted
> for.
>
> Why are you writing the crap??
>
>
> **************
> Need a new ride? Check out the
> largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
>
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
>

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[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary

2008-04-24T00:04:00.000-07:00

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

2008-04-23T23:08:00.000-07:00

No, I needed to be corrected. I just never used the mulatto term before because for some reason I thought it had a bad conontation. Apparently there are no objections as we surely would have heard from somebody on this board about it! Hope you are as tickled as I am about PA, the 10 million, and FL delegates at the convention. Finally a good day! Many more to come!

BUTTERFLYBJO@AOL.COM wrote:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was correcting you, just decided to look it up for myself to see what his age really is.

The reason I mentioned mulatto was because I can't figure out WHY everyone keeps portraying him as a full fledged black man.

==================

In a message dated 4/23/2008 11:27:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time, libertylsmom@yahoo.com writes:

I am glad to be corrected. He is not mulatto, he's yellow.....

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

2008-04-23T23:07:00.000-07:00

What is curious IS - why is he being portrayed as a totally black man constantly by the media. I look at him as just a human being running for President myself. As far as the age factor, how nice of you to so graciously catch a typo.

================

In a message dated 4/24/2008 12:00:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time, carolroberts1@verizon.net writes:

When I subtract 1961 from 2008 I get 47. If that is correct, then Obama
will be 48 in august of this year.

We've known from forever that he is 1/2 black, so why is that suddenly
of any interest? .....Carol

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[Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

2008-04-23T22:46:00.000-07:00

Suzi, you are yellow! All your posts have proved such. Did you past first grade math?
Dumbass!

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, suzi meyers <libertylsmom@...> wrote:
>
> OOPS! My bad! I have seen 46 and the 48 the other poster mentioned but that's what
we get from the msm. Holy cow! 37! I am glad to be corrected. He is not mulatto, he's
yellow.....
>
> BUTTERFLYBJO@... wrote: Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. (born August 4, 1961 = 37
yrs old at present time 4/08
>
> Barack isn't Black to begin with - he's actually considered a mulatto.
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/23/2008 10:51:28 P.M. Central Daylight Time, libertylsmom@...
writes:
> 46. Clinton carried 51% of 18-29yo in PA! Blows your theory Carol. Obama isn't
black, he's yellow 'cause he's too chicken to debate Madame President '08
>
> skye2skye2 <vickinanette@...> wrote: Old?!! Speaking of "old," why is Barack
constantly making out to be older than he is? He said in the Penn. debate he was already
48, and he did this on another occasion.
> We know he was born in the 60's.
>
> Vicki
> --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Carol Roberts <carolroberts1@> wrote:
> >
> > As we knew before PA, that state has a disproportionate population of
> > old folks, and poor folks, and those are the two groups who will cling
> > to their prejudices and out-dated beliefs the longest. The only thing
> > we can do with them is wait 'em out - they will eventually die, no
> > matter who is elected. In the meantime, there are a lot of young and
> > new voters who will not only accept Obama as a candidate, they will work
> > for him and vote for him (at least we hope the young ones will put their
> > votes where there mouths are.) The same people who answer poll
> > questions about integrity and honesty, giving Clinton the lower scores,
> > will go ahead and vote for her simply because they know who she is. And
> > regardless of Obama's racial heritage, there is the belief that he is
> > too new - hasn't been around long enough, and doesn't deserve to win
> > this time. This has nothing to do with skin color - its the way
> > politics works in this country.....Carol
> >
> > Shirley wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Carol,
> > >
> > > I totally agree with you about not wasting time and energy
> > > with another debate. This may disappoint Katie Couric, who
> > > is hoping to jump start her career after some set backs,
> > > but hey.......this is about the presidental race and not
> > > the career of a news anchor. And....if you or anyone
> > > thinks they will focus on important issues, this won't
> > > take place. They will keep focusing on issues which won't
> > > help voters make that all important decision.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
>
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[Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

2008-04-23T22:41:00.000-07:00

Your math is a bit off, if you are born in 1961, you are47 years old. Is this the latest line
of attack, Bush math? Shame on you, more lies and mistatements from the Hillary
supporters. Sounds like mulatto is a complement considering you are mentally challenged.

Do you think we are that fucking stupid? There are several courses that teach first grade
math online, you should look into enrolling in one of them Butternat(fly).

Yes, Barack is white and black, what is your point?

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[Dems2008] Repost: Global warming rage lets global hunger grow and an intro to the Hemp Solution

2008-04-23T21:43:00.000-07:00

Guess no one read this before.
Please click on links for some educational fun.
Oh, guess I never shoulda said "educational fun."
So passe.
To many, to most. Go dream of a Coach bag and an H2, instead, if you're so inclined.
I don't believe in panaceas, but "sativa," meaning "useful," as in cannabis sativa, points to our ancestors' knowledge and esteem of the plant.

Note: forwarded message attached.

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

2008-04-23T21:19:00.000-07:00

Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. (born August 4, 1961 = 37 yrs old at present time 4/08

Barack isn't Black to begin with - he's actually considered a mulatto.

In a message dated 4/23/2008 10:51:28 P.M. Central Daylight Time, libertylsmom@yahoo.com writes:

46. Clinton carried 51% of 18-29yo in PA! Blows your theory Carol. Obama isn't black, he's yellow 'cause he's too chicken to debate Madame President '08

skye2skye2 <vickinanette@webtv.net> wrote:

Old?!! Speaking of "old," why is Barack constantly making out to be older than he is? He said in the Penn. debate he was already 48, and he did this on another occasion.
We know he was born in the 60's.

Vicki
--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Carol Roberts <carolroberts1@...> wrote:
>
> As we knew before PA, that state has a disproportionate population of
> old folks, and poor folks, and those are the two groups who will cling
> to their prejudices and out-dated beliefs the longest. The only thing
> we can do with them is wait 'em out - they will eventually die, no
> matter who is elected. In the meantime, there are a lot of young and
> new voters who will not only accept Obama as a candidate, they will work
> for him and vote for him (at least we hope the young ones will put their
> votes where there mouths are.) The same people who answer poll
> questions about integrity and honesty, giving Clinton the lower scores,
> will go ahead and vote for her simply because they know who she is. And
> regardless of Obama's racial heritage, there is the belief that he is
> too new - hasn't been around long enough, and doesn't deserve to win
> this time. This has nothing to do with skin color - its the way
> politics works in this country.....Carol
>
> Shirley wrote:
> >
> >
> > Carol,
> >
> > I totally agree with you about not wasting time and energy
> > with another debate. This may disappoint Katie Couric, who
> > is hoping to jump start her career after some set backs,
> > but hey.......this is about the presidental race and not
> > the career of a news anchor. And....if you or anyone
> > thinks they will focus on important issues, this won't
> > take place. They will keep focusing on issues which won't
> > help voters make that all important decision.
>

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Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

2008-04-23T21:15:00.000-07:00

Tommorrow, I think that I will donate some more to her campaign. (cheapskate that I am).

----- Original Message ----
From: suzi meyers <libertylsmom@yahoo.com>
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:59:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

You mean she WAS in debt. 10,000,000 in 24 hrs since PA! It's growing every minute too. This 10 million includes 50,000 NEW donors too! I am sooooo happy about this!

mperry <mperry@efn.org> wrote:

Yep... Hilary is millions in debt due to overspending. She's lying about her experience. Just the candidate to lead our country through another 8 years.

Of course, her voting record is not important. She, herself, says that she sold out to the party vote. (She explains that will be different when she's President, of course.)

From: catpurdy@aol. com

To: Dems2008@yahoogroup s.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 4:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

In a message dated 4/23/2008 7:19:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mgommesen@yahoo. com writes:

Why is she still in the race?

Because she's the best candidate to win.

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Re: [Dems2008] Tom, don't leave the lights on for us

2008-04-23T21:12:00.000-07:00

This is something I KNOW we can ALL agree on! Right? For outside lights, those with sensors are great! They only come on for a few minutes or less (depending on how you set it) when someone/thing comes by. Programmable thermostats are worth upgrading to. Will pay for its self in matter of months. Adding storm doors also pays off big. It's amazing how much heat/cooling we lose through the smallest cracks. Doing your laundry in one day instead of every day saves on energy too, the dryer doesn't work so hard to heat up. Pay attention to the wattage of your bulbs too, it adds up. Go for quality if you buy solar lights for your yard, the cheap ones aren't worth a dime! The blown in insulation is the absolute best. They can spray it right on top of your other insulation in the attic. It makes a huge difference too immediately! I'll stop now.

mperry <mperry@efn.org> wrote:

If you are interested in saving electricity, start with your city council. You are aware that in most areas industrial users pay much less than you do as a home user, aren't you? Our manufacturing plant, in prime time, paid 1/5th what it costs me, per KWH. That's good, as industry is needed. After all, some businesses went under when it reached 1 cent per KWH.

However, also note the insulation in most office buildings. They are not any where near as heavily insulated as home users. Note that your town is lit up like Christmas at night. (Not to mention the birds that fly into high towers because of this.) The signs and lights are a great advertising point. It's only recently that some of these building used inexpensive night time cut backs to their heating systems.

So, if you are interested, you can contact your local enforcers of the good. Increase utility rates for these companies when they are not open for business... even if only to part of what you pay. That's all it would take.

In many locations, half, or more, of the electricity is consumed by industry. They could at least set their thermostats back and turn off their lights at night... like the home owners. Even w/o these incentives, new buildings are getting more energy efficient.

----- Original Message -----

From: Citation

To: STOCK INVESTORS .FORUM GROUP

Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 4:56 PM

Subject: [Dems2008] Tom, don't leave the lights on for us

Twenty percent of our energy bill apparently goes to LIGHTING. It's a given that we lack the resolve to conserve energy; that's clear enough.

But one of the things that grinds my gears (in my neighborhood, which is where I am in the evenings) is that everyone leaves a front porch or stoop light on, even when they are not expecting visitors. What's wrong with a short trip to Home Depot or Lowe's to get whatever solar lighting you need to stick into the ground around the front of your house if you feel some need to have a welcoming light on in front of your house.

JMHO

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Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

2008-04-23T20:59:00.000-07:00

You mean she WAS in debt. 10,000,000 in 24 hrs since PA! It's growing every minute too. This 10 million includes 50,000 NEW donors too! I am sooooo happy about this!

mperry <mperry@efn.org> wrote:

Yep... Hilary is millions in debt due to overspending. She's lying about her experience. Just the candidate to lead our country through another 8 years.

Of course, her voting record is not important. She, herself, says that she sold out to the party vote. (She explains that will be different when she's President, of course.)

From: catpurdy@aol.com

To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 4:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

In a message dated 4/23/2008 7:19:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mgommesen@yahoo.com writes:

Why is she still in the race?

Because she's the best candidate to win.

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Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

2008-04-23T20:38:00.000-07:00

Yep... Hilary is millions in debt due to overspending. She's lying about her experience. Just the candidate to lead our country through another 8 years.

Of course, her voting record is not important. She, herself, says that she sold out to the party vote. (She explains that will be different when she's President, of course.)

From: catpurdy@aol.com

To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 4:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

In a message dated 4/23/2008 7:19:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mgommesen@yahoo.com writes:

Why is she still in the race?

Because she's the best candidate to win.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

2008-04-23T20:32:00.000-07:00

No, but if we produce ethanol we can keep our cars and ourselves lit for
years. <g> (Or is that methanol... I get those confused.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Roberts" <carolroberts1@verizon.net>
To: <Dems2008@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for
biofuels, too

> Aaaahhhhh, yes...but can we smoke it? .....Carol
>
> lisa pallez wrote:
>>
>>
>> If we can get HR1009 passed, which would allow reintroduction of
>> industrial hemp, then we have a source of food, fuel, oil and much more,
>> all of the plant is useful;

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

2008-04-23T20:30:00.000-07:00

Hilary might not have the same goals, but Bill's goals had nothing to do
with the environment or to help the people. He was as Republican a Democrat
who was ever in office. <g>

Bush repealed a lot of bills that Clinton put off, just so he could do so.
That's what a waffle does. Had Gore got into office, these would have become
law, but we know how that election was rigged... err... won.

She has her own agenda and I'm not sure it's for the people... outside her
tax bracket.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandra Goodwin" <bridger82923@yahoo.com>
To: <Dems2008@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:28 PM
Subject: [Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

> ---I agree and let's take in further...one of the most important
> functions of our president is who they appoints to high level
> government positions. Example: when Bill Clinton left office he had
> set aside millions of acres here in the west in the "road-less act".
> One of Bush's first moves was to overturn that. In conjunction, he
> appointed a Secretary of the Interior who has helped big energy to
> devastate a once pristine area..
> I am far more focused on these high level positions because I'm all
> too aware of the negative impact they can have.
> Considering what the last Clinton tried to do for us, makes me
> believe Hillary would have at least some of the same values.

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[Dems2008] Re: Food crisis

2008-04-23T20:25:00.000-07:00

My daughter had what you might call "champagne tastes" before she
left for the Peace Corps. She's always been modest and caring toward
others, with a well-developed set of values and morality, but she
also liked the finer things. She lived in cities here before leaving
for the PC.

The change that has emerged over her now two years in the PC is that
she appreciates that most of what she valued in a material sense
formerly is unnecessary fluff.

Actually, she is in a city, and the Peace Corps pays the rent on her
place (she is responsible for all other daily expenses). Until
recently, food was pretty cheap for her, and she's doing without
purchases of new clothing for the most part. Her utilities are about
$4 a month; she has no car there, so does snot have that expense.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, lisa pallez <lisapallez@...> wrote:
>
> I've read a lot about that coming . . . don't know to what extent
it has been created through hysteria or foresight. We know some
stores, especially in certain cities, are rationing flour and rice.
Time will tell. I'm just talking about the USA. But this is hitting
faster and getting more infotainment mention earlier than I imagined.
It's been coming for months.
>
> I'm so not trying to be cheeky, but your daughter can barely
survive in what manner, Ci? I fear the response will be bare bones
survival. Along with most others in the country.
>
> Btw, Ci, I think you and your family rock. Your wife's words to
others when she learned about an illness she had touched me deeply.
Doubtless it touched others, too. But no one here said a word. I
still have a draft I wrote about it when I was just coming out of
lurkiness here. She's quite the evolved person. Like you. And your
children.
>
>
> citation502 <citation502@...> wrote:
Heard tonight that Sam's Club is actually limiting the amount of rice
> one can buy. Wow!! Several countries have ceased exports of
rice.
>
> The food issue is enormous, and I know it most thru my daughter in
> Central America. As a Peace corps volunteer, she is paid about
#200 a
> month. For her first two years, she was able to live comfortably
on
> that in the local economy. She says now however that she can no
longer
> survive on that $200 a month.
>
> And that figure is slightly above the per capita income in her
country.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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[Dems2008] Re: Food crisis

2008-04-23T20:19:00.000-07:00

Thanks, but I definitely married up. She's a remarkable person.
Actually, now that you mention it, I was thinking just about an hour
ago about something she has always said, and how it relates to the
candidates.

Her view is that anyone -- particularly a parent -- should conduct
himself or herself in a way that, if the conduct were reported on teh
front page of tomorrow's paper, you would not mind having your
children read it.

The relevance here is that I constantly wonder how persons like Geo.
Bush and Hillary Clinton can behave as they do, knowing that their
children will see how they behave, how they act, how they talk, the
example they set.

We know that Bill Clinton -- as a father == was never constrained by
any sort of standard. That's a no brainer. And we know that Geo.
Bush apparently has no interest in the fact that his children and
grandchildren will see the historical record of his low standard of
conduct. Now, of course, we have Hillary. Just how does a person
lie and distort when s/he knows that her own child will see the
behavior. Parents (even those who are candidates) have to know that
the example they provide is seen by their children.

Amazes me, simply amazes me, for my basic character and behavior
standard is that just about everything wrong in any of our lives
stems from the degree and kind of our dishonesty. I'm no student of
the Ten Commandments, and probably could not recite from memory more
than maybe four or five of them, but I put the highest premium on
Honesty and integrity; and it galls me when a candidate (or any one)
flouts those traits. Without them, we are nothing.

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

2008-04-23T20:12:00.000-07:00

No I think they are both too immature now, and now have to much baggage to carry into the main election, and I think it should go to Denver, and on the second vote, select someone, Like Dodd or Biden or Richardson or Edwards, or even Kennedy, we can't afford to blow it.

On 4/23/08, mgommesen <mgommesen@yahoo.com> wrote:

It's time for Unity. Both candidates are just destroying each
other.Hillary Clinton should end her bid for the White House. Obama
should offer her the Vice Presidency. Clinton should accept the
offer. It would be a bitter pill for both to swallow but it is what
both the Democratic Party and the American nation desperately needs.
Neither Clinton nor Obama should place their personal ambition, pride
or emotions ahead of the needs of the American people.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "raschueller" <raschueller@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, suzi meyers <libertylsmom@> wrote:
> >
> > I am sure you totally digust her as well. I can point to many
> examples of him being a gentleman. B.O. giving Hillary the finger
on
> the sly is my favorite! What a class act, kindergarten class
act.
> >
>
> Whats funny about this is the total lack of any sort of
sophistication
> of thought. Hillary went negative to force the vote to the
convention
> floor. Obama didn't need to go negative... because her numbers are
> already skigh high in the negative column. She is running over 50%
> negatives before a general election. Even Nixon's numbers weren't
that
> low. Why run negative ads? The cost benefit is not there.
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[Dems2008] Re: Clinton's Pa. win comes with cash prize $3.5 million donated following victory over ObamaThe Associated Press

2008-04-23T20:07:00.000-07:00

but what I hear is that she needs about a million dollars a day to
break even, and up to last night, she was in the RED; and if she gets
clocked in Indiana and North Carolina, the flow may dry up yet again.

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

2008-04-23T19:43:00.000-07:00

Slipped a couple of time?????????????

OBAMA:
04/13/08	Obama says Hillary 'knows better. She knows better, shame on her. Shame on her. She knows better!' [Source: CBS]
04/10/08	Obama says he is 'confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton.' [Source: New York Times]
04/08/08	Obama accuses Hillary of being 'a candidate who has said one thing but one another this entire campaign.' [Source: The Hill]
03/29/08	Obama accuses Clintons of 'real nasty, sort of anything goes, whatever it takes kind of politics.' [Source: CNN]
03/27/08	Obama says Hillary 'doesn't have the sense that things need to change in Washington.' [Source: Winston-Salem Journal]
03/26/08	Obama Chief Strategist David Axelrod: 'The Republican Party would very much like to run against Hillary Clinton.' [Source: Washington Post]
03/26/08	Obama campaign memo questions Hillary's 'willingness to adhere to the truth.' [Source: Obama Campaign Memo]
03/21/08	Obama Campaign held a conference call 'to Discuss Clinton Campaign's Pattern of Misleading Voters.' [Source: time-blog.com]
03/21/08	Obama Campaign says Hillary would 'cause real issues if she were to be our nominee' [Source: Obama Campaign Teleconference]
03/21/08	Obama Campaign says Hillary has 'character issues here that will cause us real problems in the fall.' [Source: Obama Campaign Teleconference]
03/21/08	Obama Campaign says Hillary 'has consistently in this campaign engaged in political calculation to mislead voters.' [Source: Obama Campaign Teleconference]
03/20/08	Obama campaign says Hillary's support of a revote is 'evidence that Clinton is willing to do absolutely anything to get elected.' [Source: Washington Times]
03/20/08	Obama campaign says Hillary's support of a revote is 'evidence that Clinton is willing to do absolutely anything to get elected.' [Source: Washington Times]
03/20/08	Obama campaign memo says Hillary has 'a legacy of misleading voters.' [Source: Obama Campaign Memo]
03/12/08	Obama accuses Hillary of twisting 'the words of an adviser who's not even speaking in an official capacity.' [Source: Philadelphia Inquirer]
03/12/08	Obama campaign says Hillary was willing to 'wink and nod at offensive statements.' [Source: Philadelphia Inquirer]
03/12/08	Obama says 'Senator Clinton represents the same way of doing business.' [Source: Allentown Morning Call]
03/11/08	Obama says Hillary 'is trying to bamboozle you.' [Source: USA Today]
03/11/08	Obama campaign suggests that Hillary's 'claims of foreign policy experience are exaggerated. [Source: The Page]
03/11/08	Obama spokesperson Axelrod said Clinton campaign follows an 'insidious pattern' when it comes to race. [Source: Politico]
03/10/08	Obama said Hillary was 'saying one thing and doing another' on NAFTA. [Source: Obama remarks in Jackson, MS]
03/08/08	Obama campaign: Clinton camp should 'stop telling the American people things that they know aren't true.' [Source: Obama campaign memo]
03/06/08	Obama campaign manager says Hillary is one of the 'most secretive politicians in America today.' [Source: Politico]
03/05/08	Obama campaign manager says 'The Clintons are the gold standard of negative tactical campaigning.' [Source: Washington Post]
03/05/08	Obama surrogate accuses Hillary of 'derogatory comments.' [Source: Obama Campaign Release]
03/05/08	Obama questions whether Hillary was 'negotiating treaties or agreements' or 'handling crises' when she visited foreign countries. [Source: MSNBC]
03/05/08	Obama spokesperson falsely accuses Hillary of misleading people about whether Obama is 'a devout Christian.' [Source: MSNBC]
03/05/08	Obama surrogate accuses Clinton campaign of trying 'to exploit race, exploit sex, exploit fear for political expediency.' [Source: CNN]
03/05/08	Obama spokesperson alludes to Hillary's 'law firms and real estate deals.' [Source: Politico]
02/18/08	Obama says that Clinton politics offer 'more of the same divisions and distractions.' [Source: LA Times]
02/15/08	Obama accuses Hillary of 'being part of business-as-usual in Washington.' [Source: CNN]
02/13/08	Obama surrogate suggests that Hillary 'demonizes people.' [Source: Washington Post]
02/11/08	Obama surrogate refers to President Clinton as 'Slick Willy.' [Source: Washington Times]
02/07/08	Obama says there is 'a whole dump truck' of dirt that Republicans could use on Hillary. [Source: New York Post]
02/04/08	Obama calls Hillary's behavior 'more troubling than legislative gamesmanship.' [Source: Newsweek]
01/31/08	Obama says sometimes 'he can't tell' if he's running against Hillary or President Clinton. [Source: New York Times]
01/30/08	Obama campaign sends negative mailer to Connecticut contains misleading attacks against Hillary on Iraq. [Source: FactHub]
01/29/08	Obama mailer claims Hillary will put 'Washington thinking and Washington interests first.' [Source: TPM Election Central]
01/28/08	Obama says sometimes 'he can't tell' if he's running against Hillary or President Clinton. [Source: Associated Press]
01/27/08	Obama likens Hillary to 'the status quo, fighting back with everything it's got.' [Source: Economist]
01/26/08	HEADLINE: Clinton calls for calm as Obama attacks continue. [Source: Times Online]
01/25/08	Obama campaign Truth Squad member says Hillary and Bill Clinton are 'all about deceit.' [Source: Washington Post]
01/23/08	Obama Radio Ad says 'Hillary Clinton will say anything to get elected. [Source: Obama SC Radio ad]
01/23/08	Obama campaign accuses Hillary of 'politics-as-usual attacks.' [Source: barackobama.com]
01/23/08	Obama: Hillary's campaign has 'former President Clinton delivering a bunch of inaccurate statements about my record' [Source: NBC's Today Show]
01/22/08	Obama campaign accuses Hillary of 'incredible distortions.' [Source: usatoday.com]
01/21/08	Obama accuses Hillary of being 'willing to say anything to get elected.' [Source: South Carolina CNN Debate]
01/21/08	Obama says sometimes 'he can't tell' if he's running against Hillary or President Clinton. [Source: South Carolina CNN Debate]
01/21/08	Obama accuses Clintons of playing 'political games that we are accustomed to.' [Source: South Carolina CNN Debate]
01/19/08	Obama says Hillary's Washington experience is 'why people mistrust our politics.' [Source: Newsday]
01/19/08	Headline: Michelle Obama launches attack on Clinton. [Source: Telegraph.co.uk]
01/18/08	Obama supporter says Hillary uses 'the kind of politics I expect from the other party.' [Source: Las Vegas Sun]
01/18/08	Obama says Hillary would be 'a president whose plans change with the politics of the moment.' [Source: New York Times]
01/18/08	Michelle Obama says Hillary represents 'the same old thing over and over again' [Source: telegraph.co.uk]
01/17/08	Obama characterizes contest with Hillary as a contest 'between the past and the future.' [Source: rollingstone.com]
01/15/08	Obama says Hillary uses 'fear of terrorism in scoring political points.' [Source: MSNBC's Las Vegas debate]
01/14/08	Obama says 'Senator Clinton started off trying to make history, and now she's trying to rewrite it.' [Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal]
01/11/08	Obama supporter suggests Hil's tears were crocodilian. [Source: New York Daily News]
01/10/08	Obama predicts a Clinton victory would mean 'starting off with half the country not wanting to vote for Democrats.' [Source: The Hill]
01/09/08	Obama supporter calls Hillary one of the 'guardians of the status quo.' [Source: Morning Joe]
12/28/07	Obama's campaign says Bhutto's assasination was 'yet another manifestation' of Hillary's poor judgment. [Source: Politico]
12/27/07	Obama links Bhutto's assassination to politicians like Hillary who 'have not made particularly good judgments.' [Source: Larry King Live]
12/27/07	Obama's talking points hit Hillary on electability. [Source: Obama talking points]
12/27/07	Obama: Hillary 'more of the same.' [Source: Chicago Sun-Times]
12/27/07	Obama: Hillary will 'be secretive as president.' [Source: Chicago Sun-Times]
12/23/07	Obama: Hillary 'tends to galvanize the other side.' [Source: CBS]
12/21/07	Obama Hits Clinton on Electability [Source: cnn.com]
12/18/07	Clinton makes nice, but Obama questions her character [Source: AFP]
12/05/07	HEADLINE: Obama: Many view Clinton negatively [Source: Des Moines Register]
12/03/07	Obama says if Hillary wins she 'will not be able to govern.' [Source: Boston.com]
11/27/07	Obama Mocks Hil 1st Lady Role [Source: New York Daily News]
11/26/07	Obama says Hillary takes credit for Clinton administration successes, says failures are 'somebody else's fault.' [Source: Nightline]
11/21/07	HEADLINE: Obama criticizes Clinton, Edwards on health care plans [Source: AP]
11/18/07	HEADLINE: Obama accuses Clinton campaign of mud-slinging with Novak column [Source: San Francisco Chronicle]
11/18/07	HEADLINE: Obama criticizes Clinton campaign at Austin rally [Source: Dallas Morning News]
11/13/07	Obama campaign manager says Hillary has 'has been ducking and dodging tough questions at rapid pace. [Source: Plouffe email]
11/08/07	Obama says Hillary 'can't deliver' change. [Source: Fox News]
11/06/07	Obama attacks Clinton's ethanol shift [Source: Des Moines Register]
11/04/07	HEADLINE: Obama Criticizes Clinton's Drive to Win [Source: Washington Post]
11/03/07	Obama says Hillary gives 'vague, calculated answers' does not have 'clear, consistent principles.' [Source: New York Times]
11/02/07	Obama said Hillary has 'one position one day and one position another day.' [Source: AP]
11/01/07	Obama campaign said Hillary 'offered more of the same Washington political calculation and evasion.' [Source: The Hill]
10/30/07	Obama says Hillary 'has not been truthful and clear.' [Source: MSNBC Debate]
10/29/07	Obama on Hillary: 'I don't think you're ready to lead if you can't tell us where you're going.' [Source: Quad City Times]
10/28/07	HEADLINE: Obama Ratchets Up Criticism of Clinton [Source: Washington Post]
10/28/07	Obama says Hillary believes 'you should hedge and dodge and spin, but at all costs, don't answer.' [Source: Financial Times]
10/24/07	HEADLINE: Obama takes aim on Clinton's vote on anti-Iran resolution [Source: Waterloo/Cedar Falls Courier]
10/23/07	HEADLINE: Obama steps up criticism of Clinton Iran vote with voter mailing [Source: AP]
10/15/07	Obama says Hillary is 'the most calculating politician in this race.' [Source: US News & World Report]
10/13/07	HEADLINE: Sen. Clinton fires back after Obama's attack on war vote [Source: Waterloo/Cedar Falls Courier]
10/12/07	HEADLINE: Obama critical of Clinton on Iran [Source: Cedar Rapids Gazette]
10/12/07	Obama on Hillary: 'I'm not sure if any of us knows exactly where she stands.' [Source: Andrew Sullivan]
10/12/07	Obama campaign accuses Hillary of 'purely tactical posturing.' [Source: Obama Campaign Memo]
10/12/07	Obama says Hillary is leading 'because she's Hillary Clinton as opposed to Hillary Rodham.' [Source: Concord Monitor]
10/03/07	Obama says Hillary would be 'another president who shuts the door on the American people.' [Source: Bloomberg]
09/07/07	Obama says, even if elected, Hillary 'can't govern.' [Source: Salon]
08/17/07	HEADLINE: Obama Takes Sharper Tone to the Trail [Source: New York Times]
07/27/07	HEADLINE: Obama attacks Clinton's foreign policy direction [Source: Financial Times]
06/15/07	Obama campaign pushes opposition research falsely accusing Bill Clinton of giving paid speech on 9/11/06. [Source: Politico]


04/11/08	Obama blames economic problems on former Clinton administration. [Source: CNN.com]
04/09/08	Obama says Hillary 'doesn't see the problem with lobbyists in Washington.' [Source: Associated Press]
04/07/08	Obama says Hillary doesn't 'believe Western states count for much.' [Source: New York Times]
03/27/08	Obama campaign says Hillary 'has exaggerated her role as first lady.' [Source: New York Post]
03/26/08	Obama strategist says the Republican Party 'would have a field day' with Hillary as nominee. [Source: Washington Post]
03/24/08	Obama campaign says Hillary is 'wallowing' in special interest influence. [Source: Obama Campaign Conference Call]
03/21/08	Obama Campaign Manager accuses Hillary of having a 'real character gap' [Source: Obama Campaign Teleconference]
03/21/08	Obama Campaign says Hillary 'would be a deeply flawed nominee.' [Source: Obama Campaign Teleconference]
03/21/08	Obama Campaign says American people believe Hillary 'is not being honest and trustworthy.' [Source: Obama Campaign Teleconference]
03/21/08	Obama Campaign says Hillary failed the test of having 'the integrity to be consistent in her views.' [Source: Obama Campaign Memo]
03/20/08	Obama campaign memo says Hillary 'has consistently made political calculations to deliberately mislead the American people.' [Source: Obama Campaign Memo]
03/19/08	Obama camp accuses Hillary's campaign of being 'more than happy to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters' in Michigan. [Source: AP]
03/12/08	Obama campaign says Hillary 'will only decry offensive comments when it's politically advantageous.' [Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette]
03/12/08	Obama campaign says Hillary 'will say and do anything to win this election.' [Source: Bloomberg News]
03/12/08	Obama campaign suggests 'an insidious pattern' of race-based remarks from the Clinton campaign. [Source: Bloomberg News]
03/11/08	Obama campaign accuses Hillary of 'hiding information in her tax returns from last year.' [Source: New York Daily News]
03/11/08	Obama campaign: 'There is no reason to believe that she was a key player in foreign policy at any time during the Clinton Administration.' [Source: The Page]
03/10/08	Obama falsely accuses Hillary campaign of leaking photos of him overseas 'to make people afraid.' [Source: Obama remarks in Jackson, MS]
03/09/08	Obama spokesman says Hillary 'deprived most Democratic voters of the ability to fully judge her.' [Source: ABC News]
03/06/08	Obama suspects 'you're not going to get a bunch of particularly impressive answers' to questions on Hillary's foreign policy experience. [Source: Time]
03/06/08	Fmr. Obama adviser Samantha Power called Hillary 'a monster.' [Source: The Scotsman]
03/05/08	Obama Texas state director accuses Hillary campaign of trying to 'discourage Texans from participating' in the caucus. [Source: Associated Press]
03/05/08	Obama spokesperson accuses Clintons of being 'the same old thing' and using 'kitchen sink strategies that have mired us in the mess we're in, in Washington.' [Source: MSNBC]
03/05/08	Obama spokesperson attacks Hillary on tax returns, library donors and White House records. [Source: CNN]
03/05/08	Obama surrogate falsely accuses Hillary of 'out of order comments' about religion. [Source: MSNBC]
03/05/08	Citing Wall Street Journal editorial, Obama campaign attacks Hillary on 'cattle-futures trading profit.' [Source: Obama campaign memo]
02/21/08	Obama says that Clinton politics offer 'more of the same divisions and distractions.' [Source: LA Times]
02/18/08	Obama surrogate accuses Hillary campaign of 'distortion, misrepresentation, and what I think is basically fear-mongering.' [Source: Chicago Tribune]
02/14/08	Obama surrogate suggests Hillary represents 'Washington-style - promises made and promises broken.' [Source: Houston Chronicle]
02/11/08	Obama says Hillary 'starts with 47% of the country against her. [Source: Washington Post]
02/08/08	Obama campaign says Republicans have 'expressed almost uniformly an interest' in having Hillary as the nominee.' [Source: National Journal]
02/05/08	Obama spokesperson accuses of Hillary's campaign of 'second-tier Congressional race tactics.' [Source: New York Times]
02/01/08	Obama supporter says Bill Clinton's role 'undermines' Hillary's 'image as an independent woman.' [Source: New York Times]
01/30/08	Obama accuses Hillary of 'changing positions when the politics of the moment changed' [Source: USA Today]
01/29/08	Obama camp sends negative mailer to North Dakota, with misleading attacks against Hillary on NAFTA and lobbyists. [Source: FactHub]
01/28/08	Obama says Clinton is 'not being straight with the American people.' [Source: New York Daily News]
01/27/08	Obama campaign accuses Hillary of 'cynically flouting' the rules. [Source: Financial Times]
01/27/08	Obama says Hillary will 'say anything or do anything to win an election.' [Source: Economist]
01/25/08	Obama campaigns says 'Hillary Clinton will do or say anything to win an election' [Source: Plouffe Statement]
01/24/08	Obama paints Hillary as 'a president whose positions change with the politics of the moment.' [Source: Boston Globe]
01/23/08	Obama radio ad says 'Hillary Clinton. She'll say anything, and change nothing. It's time to turn the page.' [Source: Obama SC Radio ad]
01/23/08	HEADLINE: Obama Hurls New Anti-Clinton Broadsides. [Source: AFP]
01/23/08	Obama truth squad member compares President Clinton to Lee Atwater. [Source: CNN]
01/22/08	Obama supporter accuses Hillary of 'backbiting, bitter give-and take.' [Source: Associated Press]
01/21/08	Obama tells Hillary, 'Truthfulness during campaigns makes a difference.' [Source: South Carolina CNN Debate]
01/21/08	Obama described Hillary as 'a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart.' [Source: South Carolina CNN Debate]
01/20/08	Obama camp: 'people have heard a lot of things that just aren't true from the mouth of the First Lady...from the mouth of the campaign.' [Source: Politico]
01/19/08	Obama campaign accuses Hillary campaign of looking for an excuse to 'evade the pledge.' [Source: Politico]
01/18/08	Obama supporter says 'no amount of falsehoods from the Clinton campaign' can change Obama's record. [Source: AP]
01/18/08	Obama campaign says Hillary's campaign 'clearly would like to have workers' voices silenced' [Source: salon.com]
01/18/08	Obama suggests Hillary was not truthful and was 'willing to say anything to get elected.' [Source: telegraph.co.uk]
01/17/08	Obama Campaign says Hillary is 'just trying to confuse people about Obama's record.' [Source: Boston Globe]
01/16/08	Obama campaign says Hillary believes 'this is a race for who would make the best chief of staff.' [Source: USA Today]
01/14/08	Obama says Hillary 'hasn't taken the issue of lobbying very seriously.' [Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal]
01/13/08	Obama claims Hillary is distracted by 'political points-scoring.' [Source: AP]
01/10/08	Obama supporter doubts Hillary's sincerity and says 'those tears have to be analyzed.' [Source: New York Daily News]
01/10/08	Obama supporter mocks Hillary's teary moment and says 'don't cry' to Obama. [Source: New York Post]
01/06/08	Obama's campaign accuses Hillary of trying to 'rewrite history.' [Source: Newsday]
12/27/07	'Barack Obama's right hand man thinks [Hillary] may have had something to do' with Bhutto's assasination. [Source: CNN.com]
12/27/07	Obama's campaign links Bhutto's assasination with Hillary's 'different judgment' [Source: Politico]
12/27/07	Obama attacks Clintons, says 'problems were there long before George Bush ever took office.' [Source: Chicago Sun-Times]
12/27/07	Headline: Obama Says It Would Be 'Madness' To Elect 'Same People...Over Again' and Expect Change [Source: abcnews.com]
12/23/07	Obama asserts Hillary will be 'playing on a very short field' against Republicans. [Source: CBS]
12/21/07	Obama Camp Registers Anti-Clinton Web Sites [Source: abcnews.com]
12/18/07	Obama Hits Hillary In New Hampshire Mailer [Source: tpmelectioncentral.com]
12/18/07	Obama Goes Negative [Source: The Page]
12/04/07	HEADLINE: Obama: Clinton can't win mandate for change [Source: Des Moines Register]
12/03/07	Obama campaign said Hillary's campaign is 'desperate and negative.' [Source: The Hill]
11/26/07	Obama claims Hillary is arguing she is 'the best qualified' to President because she talked to Bill Clinton 'on occasion.' [Source: abcnews.com]
11/19/07	Obama attacks Hillary on NAFTA [Source: Washington Times]
11/19/07	HEADLINE: In Iowa, Barack Obama criticizes Hillary Rodham Clinton on NAFTA, trade [Source: AP]
11/18/07	HEADLINE: Obama continues not-so-subtle jabs during quick Texas stop [Source: AP]
11/14/07	Obama surrogate Larry Tribe: '[Hillary is] not really a phony, though she plays one on TV.' [Source: Concord Monitor]
11/09/07	HEADLINE: Obama hits Clinton on domestic front [Source: Rocky Mountain News]
11/07/07	HEADLINE: Obama: Clinton flip-flops on energy [Source: Des Moines Register]
11/06/07	HEADLINE: Obama turns up heat as he targets Hillary [Source: Chicago Sun-Times]
11/03/07	HEADLINE: Obama calls Bush leadership catastrophic, extends criticism of Clinton [Source: AP]
11/03/07	Obama says Hillary is 'disingenuous' [Source: Newsweek]
11/01/07	Obama chief strategist says Hillary passes 'everything through a political calculator' and is not 'forthright.' [Source: LA Times]
10/31/07	Obama Goes Negative on Clinton [Source: wsj.com]
10/30/07	Obama chief strategist: Hillary 'has a special-interest obsession.' [Source: MSNBC]
10/29/07	HEADLINE: Obama criticizes Clinton over Social Security [Source: Quad City Times]
10/28/07	Headline: Clinton sidesteps social security issue, Obama says in DM [Source: Des Moines Register]
10/26/07	Obama said Hillary is 'afraid of losing a propaganda battle to some small-time dictator.' [Source: Obama Rally]
10/23/07	Obama Targets Clinton's Iran Stance in Iowa Mailer [Source: foxnews.com]
10/15/07	Obama accuses Hillary of 'triangulation and poll-driven politics' [Source: AP]
10/13/07	Obama says Hillary is willing to 'go along with Bush policies.' [Source: CNN]
10/12/07	HEADLINE: Obama: Bye-Bye Mr. Nice Guy? [Source: Chicago Tribune]
10/12/07	HEADLINE: Obama attacks Clinton on Iraq vote [Source: Quad City Times]
10/12/07	Obama campaign says Hillary tries to 'duck legitimate questions.' [Source: Obama Campaign Memo]
10/12/07	Obama campaign says it questions 'what principles, if any' Hillary has. [Source: Obama Campaign Memo]
10/11/07	Obama accuses Hillary of trying to 'massage the past.' [Source: CNN]
09/29/07	HEADLINE: Obama uses Bill Clinton's words against Hillary [Source: AP]
09/05/07	HEADLINE: Obama says he won't make the same mistakes as Clinton on health care reform [Source: AP]
07/27/07	HEADLINE: Obama likens Hillary to Bush; Hints at poor foreign policy [Source: Washington Times]
06/16/07	Obama campaign pushes opposition research referring to Hillary as '(D-Punjab).' [Source: Washington Post]
02/12/07	HEADLINE: Obama's first salvo targets Hillary Clinton [Source: Daily Telegraph

In a message dated 4/23/2008 7:24:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, suectucker@netzero.com writes:

I think he has been a total gentleman the whole time...and the couple times he's slipped

Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[Dems2008] Re: Andrew Johnson could have avoided a Senate trial if .......

2008-04-23T19:41:00.000-07:00

come to think of it, that part of her history was less than 34 years
ago, so I guess her trying to block a Nixon impeachment is part of that
EXPERIENCE that makes her ready to be the Hypocrite in Chief on DAY ONE

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "citation502" <citation502@...> wrote:
>
> Hillary had been around (only in that case she would have been right)
>
> Tried to block Nixon impeachment
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2uopxu
>

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[Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

2008-04-23T19:10:00.000-07:00

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, suzi meyers <libertylsmom@...> wrote:
>
> I am sure you totally digust her as well. I can point to many
examples of him being a gentleman. B.O. giving Hillary the finger on
the sly is my favorite! What a class act, kindergarten class act.
>

Whats funny about this is the total lack of any sort of sophistication
of thought. Hillary went negative to force the vote to the convention
floor. Obama didn't need to go negative... because her numbers are
already skigh high in the negative column. She is running over 50%
negatives before a general election. Even Nixon's numbers weren't that
low. Why run negative ads? The cost benefit is not there.

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary

2008-04-23T18:34:00.000-07:00

Facts Jack.
Are you allergic? I know they're often not palatable.
How inconvenient for you; but then you can extrapolate on something factual like that, add that dash of venom . . . and poof, we're off topic and defending that spunky wunderhund/underdog.

putmy2centsin <dude243@yahoo.com> wrote:

You're exactly right but this original poster has Hillary pegged for
everything that is wrong with our country. I'm surprised I didn't see
"Where was her fight durring WWII"

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Edward Hochman <whovian7_2000@...>
wrote:
>
> where is the fight when the republicans can push any bill they like
past your nose and due to numbers of dems compared to republicans, you
will never be able to stop them from doing so.
>
> ed
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: mgommesen mgommesen@...
> To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 7:07:41 PM
> Subject: [Dems2008] Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary
>
> Where was her "fight" during the Senate confirmation of John Ashcroft?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the Senate confirmation of Alberto
> Gonzales?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the failed Senate confirmation of John
> Bolton?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR cloture on the nomination of
> corrupt corporatist Priscilla Owen, clearing the way for her
> confirmation to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR cloture on the nomination of
> unqualified fascist Janice Rogers Brown, clearing the way for her
> confirmation to the DC Court of Appeals?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR cloture on the nomination of
> religious zealot and homophobe William H. Pryor, clearing the way for
> his confirmation to the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR cloture on the nomination of
> John Roberts, clearing the way for his confirmation as Chief Justice
> of the United States Supreme Court?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the Senate confirmation of Samuel Alito?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she skipped the Senate debate and
> confirmation vote on Michael Mukasey?
>
> Where was her "fight" against the Military Commissions Act?
>
> Where was her "fight" during this summer's vote on the Iraq War
> Supplemental?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the vote to extend FISA?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the Walter Reid scandal?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the debate on Telecom Immunity?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she SKIPPED the Senate vote to strip TelCo
> immunity from the FISA bill?
>
> Where was her "fight" on the possible impeachment of Dick Cheney?
>
> Where was her "fight" on the possible impeachment of George Bush?
>
> Where was her "fight" against the myriad scandals surrounding the
> current administration?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she campaigned for Joe Lieberman against
> Ned Lamont?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she proposed legislation to ban flag
> burning?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the 2001 Bankruptcy Bill?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the USAPATRIOT act?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the renewal USAPATRIOT act?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted AGAINST an amendment to prevent
> the use of cluster bombs against civilian populations?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the Iraq War Resolution?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the Kyl/Lieberman amendment?
>
>
> For some reason, Hillary Clinton only seems to be "a fighter" when
> she's fighting to feed her own naked ambition. Is that really what we
> want in a president?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Food crisis

2008-04-23T18:28:00.000-07:00

Hillary helped make the Wal-Mart.

raschueller <raschueller@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "citation502" <citation502@...> wrote:
>
> Heard tonight that Sam's Club is actually limiting the amount of rice
> one can buy. Wow!! Several countries have ceased exports of rice.
>

Wal-Mart is evil.

(I love getting to say that when I have a chance)

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[Dems2008] Re: Food crisis

2008-04-23T18:05:00.000-07:00

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "citation502" <citation502@...> wrote:
>
> Heard tonight that Sam's Club is actually limiting the amount of rice
> one can buy. Wow!! Several countries have ceased exports of rice.
>

Wal-Mart is evil.

(I love getting to say that when I have a chance)

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Re:[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies (sigh)

2008-04-23T18:04:00.000-07:00

This whole message board is on drugs!

----------
Sent from the Cingular network using Mobile Email

------Original Message------
From: citation502 <citation502@yahoo.com>
To: <Dems2008@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 24, 2008 12:04 AM
Subject: [Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies (sigh)

ras, you should know by now that catpurdy is on medications (most of
which have expired and are not effective) to treat her allergic
reaction to truth. Her middle name is "shill" -- she's the group's
Lanny Davis.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "raschueller" <raschueller@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, catpurdy@ wrote:
> >
> > She called for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to resign.
>
>
> Wow that was a limb to go out on.
>
> > She launched an internet campaign to gain petition signatures
> towards calling
> > for the resignation of Attorney General Gonzales.
>
> She launched or she endorsed... big diffence
> >
> > She also voted against the confirmation of John Roberts, while
Obama
> voted
> > for.
>
> Why do you lie so much? Or is it that you use Repiglican facts.
Obama
> voted against Roberts.
>

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[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

2008-04-23T18:02:00.000-07:00

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, catpurdy@... wrote:
>
> raschueller@... writes:
>
> > Why do you lie so much?
>
Sorry about this part... I was trying to be snarky. It was sarcasm go
awry. I don't think your a bad person, I just think your poorly
informed at times. Your sources blow. BTW I thought you were a guy...
I apologize for the misunderstanding.

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[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary

2008-04-23T18:00:00.000-07:00

You're exactly right but this original poster has Hillary pegged for
everything that is wrong with our country. I'm surprised I didn't see
"Where was her fight durring WWII"

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Edward Hochman <whovian7_2000@...>
wrote:
>
> where is the fight when the republicans can push any bill they like
past your nose and due to numbers of dems compared to republicans, you
will never be able to stop them from doing so.
>
> ed
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: mgommesen mgommesen@...
> To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 7:07:41 PM
> Subject: [Dems2008] Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary
>
> Where was her "fight" during the Senate confirmation of John Ashcroft?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the Senate confirmation of Alberto
> Gonzales?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the failed Senate confirmation of John
> Bolton?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR cloture on the nomination of
> corrupt corporatist Priscilla Owen, clearing the way for her
> confirmation to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR cloture on the nomination of
> unqualified fascist Janice Rogers Brown, clearing the way for her
> confirmation to the DC Court of Appeals?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR cloture on the nomination of
> religious zealot and homophobe William H. Pryor, clearing the way for
> his confirmation to the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR cloture on the nomination of
> John Roberts, clearing the way for his confirmation as Chief Justice
> of the United States Supreme Court?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the Senate confirmation of Samuel Alito?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she skipped the Senate debate and
> confirmation vote on Michael Mukasey?
>
> Where was her "fight" against the Military Commissions Act?
>
> Where was her "fight" during this summer's vote on the Iraq War
> Supplemental?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the vote to extend FISA?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the Walter Reid scandal?
>
> Where was her "fight" during the debate on Telecom Immunity?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she SKIPPED the Senate vote to strip TelCo
> immunity from the FISA bill?
>
> Where was her "fight" on the possible impeachment of Dick Cheney?
>
> Where was her "fight" on the possible impeachment of George Bush?
>
> Where was her "fight" against the myriad scandals surrounding the
> current administration?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she campaigned for Joe Lieberman against
> Ned Lamont?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she proposed legislation to ban flag
> burning?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the 2001 Bankruptcy Bill?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the USAPATRIOT act?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the renewal USAPATRIOT act?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted AGAINST an amendment to prevent
> the use of cluster bombs against civilian populations?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the Iraq War Resolution?
>
> Where was her "fight" when she voted FOR the Kyl/Lieberman amendment?
>
>
> For some reason, Hillary Clinton only seems to be "a fighter" when
> she's fighting to feed her own naked ambition. Is that really what we
> want in a president?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

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Re:Re: [Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

2008-04-23T17:57:00.000-07:00

I am 6.1.

----------
Sent from the Cingular network using Mobile Email

------Original Message------
From: <catpurdy@aol.com>
To: <Dems2008@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 24, 2008 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

In a message dated 4/23/2008 8:16:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
citation502@yahoo.com writes:

> cat, you're just such an easy target. Do I want to be in Florida
> when Russian launches an ignorance-seeking missile attack?
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Did you say your were 61? Or 6.1

**************
Need a new ride? Check out the
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Re: [Dems2008] PA Exit Polls

2008-04-23T17:34:00.000-07:00

Apparently the people of PA are willing to vote for someone who is
negative, unfair, has no integrity and whose honesty is questionable.
Either those voters are completely lacking in integrity themselves, or
they will vote for Hillary no matter what they think of her, or the
polls are incorrect, possibly because of questions that are aligned to
give a certain answer - one that is not supported by the truth. ...Carol

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[Dems2008] Washington Post editorial: The Problem With BioFuels

2008-04-23T17:21:00.000-07:00

Washington Post

The Problem With Biofuels
More proof that there are no easy solutions to climate change

Wednesday, February 27, 2008; A16

AS THE United States searches for alternative ways to feed its addiction to petroleum, ethanol and other biofuels derived from organic material have been considered a miracle motor vehicle elixir. The energy bill signed by President Bush in December mandates that at least 36 billion gallons of biofuels a year be used by 2020. Yet separate studies released this month by Princeton University and the Nature Conservancy reveal that biofuels are not a silver bullet in the battle against global warming. In fact, they could make things worse.

Corn and sugar cane are common sources of ethanol. Aside from emitting fewer greenhouse gases than coal or oil when burned as fuel, these biofuel crops remove carbon from the atmosphere while they are growing -- thus making them nearly carbon-neutral. But the studies show that ethanol may be even more dangerous for the environment than fossil fuels are. As the Princeton study points out, clearing previously untouched land to grow biofuel crops releases long-sequestered carbon into the atmosphere. While planting corn and sugar cane in already tilled land is fine, a problem arises when farmers churn up new land to grow more fuel or the food and feed displaced by biofuel crops.

The impact of these land-use changes is enormous. As the study from the Nature Conservancy warns, "converting rainforests, peatlands, savannas, or grasslands to produce biofuels in Brazil, Southeast Asia and the United States creates a 'biofuel carbon debt' by releasing 17 to 420 times more carbon dioxide than the fossil fuels they replace." There are other negative effects. Massive amounts of water are needed to irrigate cornfields, setting up potential competition between farms and homes. The runoff of pesticides and nitrogen-based fertilizers used by farmers could lead to increased pollution and oxygen-depleted waterways. The natural gas used to make the fertilizer adds to the carbon deficit created by biofuels.

An essay in the May-June 2007 issue of Foreign Affairs by two professors from the University of Minnesota highlighted still another problem: The biofuels craze could starve people. "By putting pressure on global supplies of edible crops, the surge in ethanol production will translate into higher prices for both processed and staple foods around the world," they wrote. "If oil prices remain high -- which is likely -- the people most vulnerable to the price hikes brought on by the biofuel boom will be those in countries that both suffer food deficits and import petroleum."

The problems with corn-based ethanol, long regarded as a transitional fuel source, have been debated for years. One alternative is to squeeze ethanol out of cellulose from switch grass, cornhusks and other biomass sources. But because cellulosic ethanol remains experimental, it might be years before it makes it from the laboratory to the gas tank. It all adds up to another example that there is no quick, cheap and easy way to confront the menace of global warming.

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

2008-04-23T17:17:00.000-07:00

In a message dated 4/23/2008 8:16:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, citation502@yahoo.com writes:

cat, you're just such an easy target. Do I want to be in Florida
when Russian launches an ignorance-seeking missile attack?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Did you say your were 61? Or 6.1

**************
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[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

2008-04-23T17:15:00.000-07:00

cat, you're just such an easy target. Do I want to be in Florida
when Russian launches an ignorance-seeking missile attack?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, catpurdy@... wrote:
>
> citation502@... writes:
>
> > ras, you should know by now that catpurdy is on medications (most
of
> > which have expired and are not effective) to treat her allergic
> > reaction to truth. Her middle name is "shill" -- she's the
group's
> > Lanny Davis.
> >
>
> Yes, and everyone on Yahoo just thinks the world of you, Ci. Why
don't you
> just stay away from me instead of continually proving what those
people had to
> say.
>
>
> **************
> Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used
> car listings at AOL Autos.
>
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
>

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[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

2008-04-23T17:14:00.001-07:00

nice debate approach: make YOUR dishonesty ras's problem. Choice,
really choice.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, catpurdy@... wrote:
>
> raschueller@... writes:
>
> > Why do you lie so much?
>
> I was wrong about Roberts - my bad. But there you go again - nth
degree. So
> much? Care to tell me what I've lied about SO much?
>
>
> **************
> Need a new
> ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL
Autos.
>
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
>

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: View in Massachussetts

2008-04-23T17:14:00.000-07:00

In a message dated 4/23/2008 8:08:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, raschueller@yahoo.com writes:

Now its EVERY post is a right wing Repiglican

Exaggerating again.

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[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

2008-04-23T17:13:00.000-07:00

cat: the Roberts question was a 50-50; it's like the Trivial Pursuit
question, "Was Babe Ruth left or right handed?"

You could GUESS at the truth and do better than you do, OR, and I don't
mean to put a burden on you, you could LOOK IT UP before asserting it.

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[Dems2008] Re: It's a simple a question of Math!

2008-04-23T17:11:00.000-07:00

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Edward Hochman <whovian7_2000@...> wrote:
>
> if she was to drop out today Obama still does not have the numbers
to get the nomination; and then if she wants to have a chance she
can't drop out.

The only chance she ahs to win is to stick a rocket in a pigs tooter,
cause it ain't gonna happen.

But to be honest I have said it is her DUTY to stay in the race until
the convention and maybe afterwards. She has a destiny to fulfill, and
I abck her 100% in her effort to stay in the race.

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[Dems2008] ras,have you not figured out cat's "issues" yet?

2008-04-23T17:10:00.000-07:00

actually, I suspect you have

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[Dems2008] Re: Outsourcing crisis intervention

2008-04-23T17:02:00.000-07:00

I live near a metropolitan area and know a handful of Pakistani-
Americans, to a person reputable peace-loving U.S. patriots, many of
whom came here to escape the oppression of earlier Pakistani
governments, one of whom actually spent time in jail there for his
dissent.

You smear an entire country's natives by your "humor," which, as you
seem to acknowledge, is in "ill taste."

And actual lives of innocent Iraqis, Israelis, Brits, and U.S.
Citizens have been taken by the evil suicide bombers and flyers.
There's NOTHING humorous, even obliquely in your post. It's
disgusting and should offend anyone, of any nationality, who finds
generalizing in a condemning way about an entire class or
nationality disgusting.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Aldon Hynes <Aldon.Hynes@...> wrote:
>
> Okay... For a moment of humor, which I'm sure at least some of you
will find
> in ill taste:
>
> I don't recall exactly where I heard this from, I suspect it was
someone
> quoting a late night TV skit.
>
> So, I called the crisis intervention hotline the other night. It
had been
> outsourced. Some guy from Pakistan answered the phone. I told him
I was
> suicidal and he got all excited.
>
> "Can you drive a truck?" he asked.
>

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[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies (sigh)

2008-04-23T16:56:00.002-07:00

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, catpurdy@... wrote:
>
> She called for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to resign.

Wow that was a limb to go out on.

> She launched an internet campaign to gain petition signatures
towards calling
> for the resignation of Attorney General Gonzales.

She launched or she endorsed... big diffence
>
> She also voted against the confirmation of John Roberts, while Obama
voted
> for.

Why do you lie so much? Or is it that you use Repiglican facts. Obama
voted against Roberts.

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[Dems2008] Re: "Working Class"

2008-04-23T16:56:00.001-07:00

Good question. I don' wear a blur collar or belong tp a union and I
think I work pretty damn hard.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Carol Roberts <carolroberts1@...>
wrote:
>
> Will someone please define for me the phrase "working class"? It
seems
> to mean variously; blue collar; union member; non-professional white
> guys.... anybody know for sure?
>
> And, is this supposed to indicate that people who work in
professions =
> those who used to be "white collar" workers, don't really work
anymore?
> .....Carol
>

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[Dems2008] Tom, don't leave the lights on for us

2008-04-23T16:56:00.000-07:00

Twenty percent of our energy bill apparently goes to LIGHTING. It's a given that we lack the resolve to conserve energy; that's clear enough.

But one of the things that grinds my gears (in my neighborhood, which is where I am in the evenings) is that everyone leaves a front porch or stoop light on, even when they are not expecting visitors. What's wrong with a short trip to Home Depot or Lowe's to get whatever solar lighting you need to stick into the ground around the front of your house if you feel some need to have a welcoming light on in front of your house.

JMHO

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[Dems2008] "working class"

2008-04-23T16:46:00.000-07:00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class

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[Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

2008-04-23T16:45:00.000-07:00

So democracy is dead? What answers do we have?

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Carol Roberts <carolroberts1@...>
wrote:
>
> For how long? Four years? Eight years? The problem in this
country is
> that we have no on-going NATIONAL GOALS. We The People do not vote
> directly on issues. We have no National Referendum. Therefore,
the
> issues we support are just 4 year issues. The environment is only
a
> priority if we temporarily elect the right person, and when that
person
> is replaced by someone from the other party that issue goes in the
> toilet. Instead of being so emotionally charged about electing
> personalities, I think we should examine the possibility of
electing our
> National Priorities and requiring our representatives to support
and
> work on those priorities regardless of political party and
regardless of
> who is in the White House.
>
> One reason foreign countries are wanting less and less to do with
the US
> is that our foreign policy changes with every new majority in
Congress.
> This makes our foreign policy subject to whim, along with our
economic
> policy, and every other policy. Our founding fathers may have been
> pretty smart guys, but they really blew it on this one.....Carol
>
> Sandra Goodwin wrote:
> >
> >
> > Considering what the last Clinton tried to do for us, makes me
> > believe Hillary would have at least some of the same values.
> >
>

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[Dems2008] Re: "Working Class"

2008-04-23T16:42:00.000-07:00

My sense has always been that "working class" is not limited to
unskilled labor; it includes (in my terms) skilled
tradespeople.....plumbers, mechanics, electricians, and lots of
contractors are as skilled in their professions as are those who have
advanced degrees and licenses from their state.

But the operative "cut off" it seems to me has always been those who
work with their hands for no more than the median income AS OPPOSED
to those who "work" more with their heads, typically in air
conditioned offices.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Carol Roberts <carolroberts1@...>
wrote:
>
> Will someone please define for me the phrase "working class"? It
seems
> to mean variously; blue collar; union member; non-professional
white
> guys.... anybody know for sure?
>
> And, is this supposed to indicate that people who work in
professions =
> those who used to be "white collar" workers, don't really work
anymore?
> .....Carol
>

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[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary

2008-04-23T16:39:00.000-07:00

Are this prize fight pugilism is cute, and probably appeals to the
less-educated who are Hillary's base, but I would like a nominee who
is reflective, considerate, and with superb judgment. NOT just
someone who reads the polls and goes in whatever direction public
opinion turns her.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, catpurdy@... wrote:
>
>
>
> > For some reason, Hillary Clinton only seems to be "a fighter"
when
> > she's fighting for the American people. Is that really what we
> > want in a president?
> >
>
> Damn straight!
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
> listings at AOL Autos.
>
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
>

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Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

2008-04-23T16:34:00.000-07:00

In a message dated 4/23/2008 7:19:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mgommesen@yahoo.com writes:

Why is she still in the race?

Because she's the best candidate to win.

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Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

2008-04-23T16:30:00.000-07:00

if she was to drop out today Obama still does not have the numbers to get the nomination; and then if she wants to have a chance she can't drop out. by the way, did you know that you are adding to your own disappointment as the primary goes on to convention?

----- Original Message ----
From: mgommesen <mgommesen@yahoo.com>
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 7:18:47 PM
Subject: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?
az=view_all&address=132x5639954

If Hillary cannot win the nomination...what is her motive..is it to
assure an Obama defeat in November? ...then run again in 2012?

Why is she still in the race?

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[Dems2008] Re: "Working Class"

2008-04-23T16:17:00.000-07:00

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Carol Roberts <carolroberts1@...> wrote:
>
> Will someone please define for me the phrase "working class"? It seems
> to mean variously; blue collar; union member; non-professional white
> guys.... anybody know for sure?
>
> And, is this supposed to indicate that people who work in
professions =
> those who used to be "white collar" workers, don't really work anymore?
> .....Carol
>
I can give you the workable definition that we history geeks agreed on
today.

Traditionally Blue and Pink collar workers. Working class would refer
to those individuals for whom work by necessity provides the core
around which the family structure revolves. These are individuals who
would be recognized as non-salaried non-professional workers in
non-agrarian jobs.

While no one suggests that the professional workers do not work...
their work does not by necessity dictate their family structure. Of
course their are exceptions... the agrarian exception is necessary
because typically in a modern economy the working class is removed
from the fruits of labor. So while again their are exceptions by and
large the agrarian worker is not considered part of the working class.

Historically this distinction is important when viewing events like
the French Revolution or the Bolshevik Revolution. Class distinction
plays a critical role in both. The white collar and merchant class of
course is the bourgeois.

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: View in Massachussetts

2008-04-23T16:13:00.000-07:00

raschueller@yahoo.com writes:

Everyday i
find posts from you or another hillary supporter quoting some of the
most reprehesible people in the media to make your point.

Well I find Keith Olbermann to be reprehensible, but he's nowhere near the right wing. Like I've said to you BEFORE, I don't take the time to research the authors of every article I post. Frankly, I don't care if it's written by a Martian if it makes sense and has facts. I'm quite sure you go straight to finding out who the author is and don't even look at the article. If that's your style, fine. It's not mine.

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[Dems2008] Edwards Backers Team Up With Obama

2008-04-23T15:47:00.002-07:00

Edwards Backers Team Up With Obama
New York Times - United States
By Julie Bosman But nearly 50 of his most prominent backers lined up behind Senator Barack Obama today, in a gesture designed to give Mr. Obama a heavy ...

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[Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

2008-04-23T15:47:00.001-07:00

Oh and we so NEED another debate. I'm thinking we'll get to the bottom
of things about the 905th time around. Should we all pick numbers and
start a lottery?

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, catpurdy@... wrote:
>
> Weaker by the day:) Note the poll.
>
> http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/22/what-does-the-north-carolina-
debate-retr
> eat-mean/
>
>
>
> **************
> Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
> listings at AOL Autos.
>
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
>

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: "Working Class"

2008-04-23T15:33:00.000-07:00

Will someone please define for me the phrase "working class"? It seems
to mean variously; blue collar; union member; non-professional white
guys.... anybody know for sure?

And, is this supposed to indicate that people who work in professions =
those who used to be "white collar" workers, don't really work anymore?
.....Carol

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

2008-04-23T15:32:00.001-07:00

If you want a bad headache.
It's the anti-thc.
If it's grown with its cousin that has high levels (20% or so) of thc, the element that produces a "high" to smokers, the thc in the medicinal variety will be lowered down to the level of thc in industrial hemp (0.3% or less) in just a 120-160 day crop rotation or 2.
I heard one lady lady tell a story of standing in a burning hemp field, and she attested to the headache factor.
~Lisa

Carol Roberts <carolroberts1@verizon.net> wrote:

Aaaahhhhh, yes...but can we smoke it? .....Carol

lisa pallez wrote:
>
>
> If we can get HR1009 passed, which would allow reintroduction of
> industrial hemp, then we have a source of food, fuel, oil and much more,
> all of the plant is useful;

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Our Founding Fathers Warned Us .... this is more boring than the last

2008-04-23T15:24:00.001-07:00

raschueller <raschueller@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I watched it last night while I was studying. Pretty quickly studying
became lost to rapt attention in the documentary. As you said a
classic. I plan to peruse the titles once the break hits. <
Sorry to take you away from your studies, but happy to hear you found it interesting, and it's kinda like related.

>Too funny. To me its shocking for a station broadcasting to children
in classes to take a stance which benifits its advertisers. Wait... no
not shocking... just frustrating at this point. I think the shock
factor is about over.<
It's outrageous and frustrating.

>Its remarkable how profitible marketing services to the military ahs
become. Military contracts are no longer product oriented they are
service oriented. Welcome to the 21st century economy. <

Don't get me started on our privatized military and its roots and tentacles.

>Hey field of dreams is one of three movies that can make my cry. My
last piece that I wrote for the same group was a head hunter piece on
Helium. The national strategic reserve was sold down to save the
taxpayers the expense of holding it... now there is a global shortage
and companies are making a mint. Like the movie... Privatize it and
they will come... now there is a shortage in some hospitals and
instead of using hel-ox they have to intubate patients. (sigh) <
Yeah, I noted before you like FoD. I first saw it with my brother and we were both beyond misty eyed, even for a long while after leaving the theater, too. We both loved it. Long time ago.
Privatize it and the "haves" become the "have mores," even the C(himp)inC understands that one.
Thanks for the kind words, too, Ras.

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

2008-04-23T15:18:00.000-07:00

Both candidates are catering to the Iowa crowd with that bio-fuel
nonsense. McCain is the one who told them its a dumb idea....Carol

Sandra Goodwin wrote:
>
>
> Apparently, both candidates need more education on alternative energy
> fuels. I wish we could get away from the combustible engine already.
>

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[Dems2008] Re: View in Massachussetts

2008-04-23T15:04:00.001-07:00

> No, I'm NOT saying and I NEVER said I agreed with the point of the
article
> and that's what drives me nuts about you. You take everything to the
nth degree
> - because I ask a question, that's enough, in your mind, to
convict me of
> something - makes it impossible to have a conversation.
> Yes, I DO wonder why they couldn't answer that question in the
affirmative
> and it bothers me - but that does not translate into "I think Islam
is a
> terrorist religion". I do worry that even moderate clerics are
sometimes afraid to
> speak out and that the extreme strain is reaching further - however,
I still
> think that the majority of those who practice the religion do so
peacefully.
>

Something you obviously ignored is what do you mean by "moderate"
Muslim Clerics. Who is defining this as moderate. What defines a
cleric as "moderate". In theological terms can there be no defense of
suicide bombings in other religions. I think I can make a very good
case using hypotheticals in a religious context to defend suicide
bombings. Say if we are talking about a case of genocide, could a
defense of committing suicide to prevent this not be justifiable. So
of course in a religious context it would depend on the situation
given. But lets revert back to what you said... does this not bother
YOU... thats important. You did not at any point say that you wondered
about this... you implied that this explanation is unsatisfactory...
may more satisfactory because it was made by "moderates". Further at
no point did you say... yes this man is an idiot for saying that the
Islam is a terrorist organization. (A comment by the way he was fired
for) instead you found some point that was "defensible".

Finally and this ahs been my point all along and the ORIGINAL point I
made... a point you avoided completely by going down this tangent is
WHY on earth do you keep quoting right wing extremists. Everyday i
find posts from you or another hillary supporter quoting some of the
most reprehesible people in the media to make your point. Are you not
a little concerned that you are relying on information from the SAME
individuals you do everything they can to destroy this party.

I find it problematic that you and others keep quoting extreme right
wing hate mongers. Either you are ignorant of the sources or you
embrace those very people you quote because its convenient. The
problem is they are spewing this garbage for a reason....

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

2008-04-23T15:03:00.000-07:00

Aaaahhhhh, yes...but can we smoke it? .....Carol

lisa pallez wrote:
>
>
> If we can get HR1009 passed, which would allow reintroduction of
> industrial hemp, then we have a source of food, fuel, oil and much more,
> all of the plant is useful;

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[Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

2008-04-23T15:00:00.001-07:00

Apparently, both candidates need more education on alternative energy
fuels. I wish we could get away from the combustible engine already.

In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, lisa pallez <lisapallez@...> wrote:
>
> If we can get HR1009 passed, which would allow reintroduction of
industrial hemp, then we have a source of food, fuel, oil and much
more, all of the plant is useful; the fuel that Ford, Diesel, Edison
imagined . . . that doesn't require pesticides, little, if any,
fertilizer . . . well I've already posted on this.
> I can bear to be quiet about it, but don't want to hammer on it
here all the time, either.
>
> If you're interested, here's a another tidbit with some good info
on the biofuel/sustainability issue (he doesn't mention the way I see
it it, I add that we grow for food at first, the seeds and oil have a
short 1 year shelf life, and then the stores can be converted to
biofuel):
> http://www.jackherer.com/chapter09.html
>
> The corn lobbies have well, a lotta control. You're probably
already familiar with their latest wins. I am against corn biodiesel.
Soy is the next best, after hemp, but . . . that also has issues.
> None of these candidates has a great green agenda . . . but that
goes back to who we elect to Congress, anyhow.
>
> FYI Hillary is for biofuels and the corn muscle:
>
>

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

2008-04-23T14:54:00.001-07:00

If we can get HR1009 passed, which would allow reintroduction of industrial hemp, then we have a source of food, fuel, oil and much more, all of the plant is useful; the fuel that Ford, Diesel, Edison imagined . . . that doesn't require pesticides, little, if any, fertilizer . . . well I've already posted on this.
I can bear to be quiet about it, but don't want to hammer on it here all the time, either.

If you're interested, here's a another tidbit with some good info on the biofuel/sustainability issue (he doesn't mention the way I see it it, I add that we grow for food at first, the seeds and oil have a short 1 year shelf life, and then the stores can be converted to biofuel):
http://www.jackherer.com/chapter09.html

The corn lobbies have well, a lotta control. You're probably already familiar with their latest wins. I am against corn biodiesel. Soy is the next best, after hemp, but . . . that also has issues.
None of these candidates has a great green agenda . . . but that goes back to who we elect to Congress, anyhow.

FYI Hillary is for biofuels and the corn muscle:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=4073

11/6/2007

Fueling Job Growth And A Green Economy

Hillary Clinton's Plan to Increase Biofuels Production and Create Clean Energy Jobs

Today in Newton, IA Hillary Clinton outlined the details of her plan to dramatically increase biofuels production in an effort tackle our energy and climate challenges. Boosting biofuels production is one of the key goals of Hillary's energy plan, which would increase production of corn ethanol, cellulosic ethanol, biodiesel and other biofuels to 36 billion gallons by 2022 and 60 billion gallons by 2030.

"Our nation's dependence on foreign oil places our economy at risk, our security in jeopardy, and our planet in peril. But I believe we can transform the way we use and produce energy - and create at least 5 million jobs in new green industries," Clinton said.

"Renewables like biodiesel can be the fuel for a brighter future. And when I'm president, they'll also fuel a 21st century green economy that helps us end our dependence on foreign oil and begin addressing the climate crisis. It's time for America to retake our title as the innovation nation and to launch a green energy revolution."

Biofuels are an essential part of Hillary's strategy to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and catalyze a thriving renewables sector in the U.S. No state has proven the potential of biofuels more than Iowa, which leads the nation in biofuels output and is responsible for 32% of US ethanol capacity and 20% of biodiesel capacity. Biofuels production has helped create about 53,000 jobs in Iowa alone. Corn ethanol and biodiesel have fueled this rapid growth and Iowa is a leader in the emerging cellulosic industry as well.

Hillary's plan will expand biofuels in Iowa and across the country by providing new incentives for biofuel production, funding for advanced research, support for biofuel infrastructure, and new environmental guidelines and local ownership initiatives to ensure biofuels are produced in a sustainable manner. These steps will help displace gasoline consumption and create millions of good American manufacturing jobs that cannot be outsourced.

Yesterday in Cedar Rapids, Hillary Clinton outlined a comprehensive agenda to tackle our nation's twin challenges of energy independence and climate change. Her plan will aggressively reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 80% from 1990 levels by 2050, cut foreign oil imports by 66%, and transform our carbon-based economy into an efficient green economy, creating at least 5 million jobs from clean energy over the next decade.

To view Hillary's comprehensive plan to address our energy and climate crisis, click here.

Hillary's five-point plan to increase production of biofuels to 60 billion gallons by 2030 includes:

Extending Tax Incentives for Biofuel Production: Tax incentives for biofuels production are the foundation of support for the fledgling biofuels industry. By providing a per-gallon tax credit for corn ethanol, cellulosic ethanol, and biodiesel, the federal government has encouraged investment in biorefinery capacity, helping to bring about the rapid expansion in the industry. To encourage continued growth in the industry, Hillary would extend tax credits for these biofuels.
Strengthening Ethanol Infrastructure and Flex-Fuel Vehicles: Automakers are expanding production of "flex-fuel" vehicles that can run on 85% ethanol blends (E85), but the total fleet of flex-fuel vehicles on the road today numbers only 6 million out of about 250 million cars in the US. In addition, of the 170,000 filling stations in the United States, there are fewer than 2,000 that have pumps that dispense E85 ethanol. As biorefinery capacity continues to grow, getting biofuels to market efficiently and putting them to use will depend on improving the distribution infrastructure and making sure that all of our vehicles can run on E85. To ensure that a growing supply can meet a growing demand, Hillary would: (A) require oil companies and other major gasoline retailers to have E85 pumps at half of their stations by 2012, and 100% by 2017; (B) require automakers to make all vehicles flex-fuel vehicles by 2015; (C) and invest in freight rail upgrades to bring biofuels more efficiently to market.
Investing in Research to Accelerate Cellulosic Ethanol and Advanced Biofuels: Cellulosic ethanol and other advanced biofuels technologies offer the promise of using many types of biomass as feedstocks. In Iowa, there are plans to make cellulosic ethanol from corn stover by adding capacity to existing corn ethanol plants, a step that could increase production by about 20%. Elsewhere in the country, grasses, wood chips and other feedstocks can be utilized to make cellulosic ethanol. Commercializing this technology and getting it rapidly deployed will require investments in research and financial support to build the first generation of plants. To accomplish these goals, Hillary will invest $2 billion in cellulosic ethanol research and provide loan guarantees to build the first two billion gallons of cellulosic ethanol capacity.
Starting the Next Generation of Energy Crops and Technologies: Moving to new energy crops will depend on farmers who take a risk on growing new crops. Hillary would create a new incentive program to reward farmers in the vicinity of planned cellulosic ethanol facilities to plant new energy such as perennial grasses and trees. This program will also provide conservation benefits and wildlife habitat. She would also establish a program to speed the development of harvesting, conversion and processing technologies needed to turn new feedstocks into biofuel.
Ensuring Sustainable Biofuel Production: Hillary believes that we must achieve our biofuels expansion in a way that protects the environment, contributes to solving the climate change problem, and maximizes rural development. Hillary will set a greenhouse gas emissions target for advanced biofuels to ensure that they move over time towards a standard of emitting at least 80% less greenhouse gases as compared to gasoline. In addition, she would develop biofuels guidelines to take into account impacts on land and water resources, water supplies, food prices and wildlife. And she will challenge agricultural research universities across the country to solve major challenges to biofuel expansion - like doubling corn yields and reducing the amount of water used in the refinery process - through a new federal grant and research prize program. In addition to environmental sustainability, Hillary will ensure economic sustainability for rural communities. She is committed to helping rural communities capture a larger share of the economic benefits of the next wave of biorefinieries. Among other things, she will promote local ownership of biorefineries by giving priority in awarding grants and loan guarantees to plants that are locally owned.

Expanding Biofuels and Other Renewables Will Help Create Clean Energy Jobs and Fuel Economic Growth

America's biofuels industry has grown rapidly over the past two decades, from producing only 175 million gallons in 1980 to more than 5 billion gallons today. Iowa has been at the forefront of this movement, and has reaped substantial economic benefits. At the end of 2006, the state had 26 operating ethanol facilities and 8 biodiesel plants, with many more under construction. The industry is growing rapidly; when all current construction projects are completed, Iowa will have doubled its ethanol production capacity and tripled biodiesel capacity.

Biofuels support the creation of about 53,000 jobs in Iowa, including 30,000 jobs in ongoing operation and maintenance. [IRFA, 2007].
Ethanol and biodiesel generate $1.8 billion in household income for Iowa households - that's $2,400 per family of four. [IRFA, 2007].
Hillary's plan will build on these successes to catalyze a thriving renewables sector nationwide. The economic and employment impact of this effort are substantial.
Hillary's plan to get on a path to produce 25% of our electricity needs from renewables by 2025 could help our economy create 2 million clean energy jobs over 10 years. [University of Tennessee, 25% Renewable Energy for the United States By 2025: Agricultural and Economic Impacts, November 2006]. This is a component of Hillary's energy plan, which aims overall to help create more than 5 million jobs over a decade.
In addition, by strengthening the capacity of domestic manufacturers in biofuels and other renewable sectors, Hillary's plan will help spur additional job growth from accelerated exports. A recent study found that "a renewable energy industry servicing the export market can generate up to 16 times more employment than an industry that only manufactures for domestic consumption." [Environment California Research and Policy Center, Renewable Energy and Jobs, 2003]. The export potential and related job benefits are substantial in a global renewables market that is projected to quadruple, from $55 billion in 2006 to $226 billion in 2016. [Clean Edge, 2007].
Combined with her efforts to promote energy efficiency, Hillary's plan will help transform our economy and create at least 5 million jobs from clean energy over ten years.

Sandra Goodwin <bridger82923@yahoo.com> wrote:

Another reason I don't support Obama...he's on the bio-fuel bandwagon
and I believe it's because he doesn't know any better.

In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, lisa pallez <lisapallez@...> wrote:
>
> I wish he'd mentioned industrial hemp, but, . . . Time also had a
great article (to use as a starting point) about "The Clean Energy
Scam" . . .
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html
>
>
> http://www.naturalnews.com/023091.html
>
>
> The Biofuels Scam, Food Shortages and the Coming Collapse of the
Human Populationby Mike Adams
>

.

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[Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

2008-04-23T14:37:00.001-07:00

You are so right about National Goals...where the hell are they? I
bet we look like a damn yo-yo to other countries. I wish you could
see the difference in my backyard from 10 years ago to now...it's
sickening. Hell, look at the entire country.

In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Carol Roberts <carolroberts1@...>
wrote:
>
> For how long? Four years? Eight years? The problem in this
country is
> that we have no on-going NATIONAL GOALS. We The People do not vote
> directly on issues. We have no National Referendum. Therefore,
the
> issues we support are just 4 year issues. The environment is only
a
> priority if we temporarily elect the right person, and when that
person
> is replaced by someone from the other party that issue goes in the
> toilet. Instead of being so emotionally charged about electing
> personalities, I think we should examine the possibility of
electing our
> National Priorities and requiring our representatives to support
and
> work on those priorities regardless of political party and
regardless of
> who is in the White House.
>
> One reason foreign countries are wanting less and less to do with
the US
> is that our foreign policy changes with every new majority in
Congress.
> This makes our foreign policy subject to whim, along with our
economic
> policy, and every other policy. Our founding fathers may have been
> pretty smart guys, but they really blew it on this one.....Carol
>
> Sandra Goodwin wrote:
> >
> >
> > Considering what the last Clinton tried to do for us, makes me
> > believe Hillary would have at least some of the same values.
> >
>

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

2008-04-23T14:19:00.000-07:00

For how long? Four years? Eight years? The problem in this country is
that we have no on-going NATIONAL GOALS. We The People do not vote
directly on issues. We have no National Referendum. Therefore, the
issues we support are just 4 year issues. The environment is only a
priority if we temporarily elect the right person, and when that person
is replaced by someone from the other party that issue goes in the
toilet. Instead of being so emotionally charged about electing
personalities, I think we should examine the possibility of electing our
National Priorities and requiring our representatives to support and
work on those priorities regardless of political party and regardless of
who is in the White House.

One reason foreign countries are wanting less and less to do with the US
is that our foreign policy changes with every new majority in Congress.
This makes our foreign policy subject to whim, along with our economic
policy, and every other policy. Our founding fathers may have been
pretty smart guys, but they really blew it on this one.....Carol

Sandra Goodwin wrote:
>
>
> Considering what the last Clinton tried to do for us, makes me
> believe Hillary would have at least some of the same values.
>

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: View in Massachussetts

2008-04-23T14:12:00.000-07:00

Well now, that's a problem isn't it? Think of it this way, just for a
moment... when a white man robs a bank he is most likely to be arrested
by a white cop, prosecuted by a white DA, judged by a white jury and
sentenced by a white judge, and the whole thing is reported in a
newspaper owned and operated by white folks. Now, when a Muslim commits
some act of badness, who goes after him? Where is the outrage in the
"moderate" Islamic community? ......Carol

catpurdy@aol.com wrote:
>
I do worry that even moderate
> clerics are sometimes afraid to speak out and that the extreme strain is
> reaching further - however, I still think that the majority of those who
> practice the religion do so peacefully.
>

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[Dems2008] Re: Our Founding Fathers Warned Us .... this is more boring than the last

2008-04-23T14:11:00.001-07:00

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, lisa pallez <lisapallez@...> wrote:
>
> Ras,
> This information and the work you're doing should be shared widely.
Bless you for enduring the tedium of research, but this isn't boring,
it's vital; it is related to the health, education and future of of
our kids on so many levels that it shouldn't just hit the stacks.
>
> You can teach me something else here . . . what's a pip? : ) And I
have to stop myself from abbreviating all the time here. lol
>

Pip comes from pippin.. it means someone that is exceptional or
admirable. Also can mean an event or moment. But in this case applied
to a person who has an admirable quality.

> That doc, Merchants of Cool, is kinda dated, about 55 min.s, but to
me it was worth watching. Close to classic.
> They really have a treasure trove of movies there, at
www.teachpeace.com . I noticed so many great titles that I was unaware
of, in just their media section today. And I'd be all over their site
if I were teaching or in education.
>

I watched it last night while I was studying. Pretty quickly studying
became lost to rapt attention in the documentary. As you said a
classic. I plan to peruse the titles once the break hits.

> I seriously thought I just might be missing something more subtle
and nefarious than what I found. The article was easy to find. I never
doubt there's more trash I'm passively absorbing. Such is my current
state. Guess some would call it orange alert. Pushing toward red.
Maybe I've just spent too much time in airports.
>
Too funny. To me its shocking for a station broadcasting to children
in classes to take a stance which benifits its advertisers. Wait... no
not shocking... just frustrating at this point. I think the shock
factor is about over.

> I have Levin chills, don't know Stabenow, or the others, happy to
surmise they failed (b/c they were talking about a 2002 crop), but it
does sound like they might've been the groundbreakers for those that
are trying to break the system through a push for "health," under the
guise of green as well, and yes, I did note that the program allows
for a $ .90 meal budget per child. [and I'm not going into the excused
and expanded fallen cow meat they're getting, etc; a bit of the little
I knew about previously]. Let's just say that real produce (preferably
organically grown) is good, as hempseeds are very healthful, offering
the most complete plant protein- 22% of the rda for protein and so
much more in a 3 Tbs serving! But so much obviously isn't about
promoting the health of children.
> It'll be the gov't granted subsidies/contracts/welfare for 'the
corporation' who will have greater ability to force advertising on our
captive audience of schoolchildren for the products they're selling,
over subsidies for meals for our children, to put it v v v simply?
> That $600 or handout for the masses couldn't be better used in
education? Or any other part of the infrastructure?
> They've privatized so much in the military, you can see the push
here . . . you know what I'm talking about. I'm shivering in my own
corner, too.

Its remarkable how profitible marketing services to the military ahs
become. Military contracts are no longer product oriented they are
service oriented. Welcome to the 21st century economy.

> As Marge says in Fargo, " . . . and all that just for a little bit
of money" It scales up well.
>
>

I love that phrase... scales up.

You really could work on making that doc, Ras.
> Write the info, share it and it will grow. Yes, unabashedly making a
lame Field of Dreams ref.
>

Hey field of dreams is one of three movies that can make my cry. My
last piece that I wrote for the same group was a head hunter piece on
Helium. The national strategic reserve was sold down to save the
taxpayers the expense of holding it... now there is a global shortage
and companies are making a mint. Like the movie... Privatize it and
they will come... now there is a shortage in some hospitals and
instead of using hel-ox they have to intubate patients. (sigh)

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[Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, Food Shortages and the Coming Collapse of the Human Population

2008-04-23T13:33:00.001-07:00

Another reason I don't support Obama...he's on the bio-fuel bandwagon
and I believe it's because he doesn't know any better.

In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, lisa pallez <lisapallez@...> wrote:
>
> I wish he'd mentioned industrial hemp, but, . . . Time also had a
great article (to use as a starting point) about "The Clean Energy
Scam" . . .

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html
>
>
> http://www.naturalnews.com/023091.html
>
>
> The Biofuels Scam, Food Shortages and the Coming Collapse of the
Human Populationby Mike Adams
>
> (NaturalNews) It was one of the dumbest "green" ideas ever
proposed: Convert millions of acres of cropland into fields for
growing ethanol from corn, then burn fossil fuels to harvest the
ethanol, expending more energy to extract the fuel than you get from
the fuel itself! Meanwhile, sit back and proclaim you've achieved a
monumental green victory (President Bush, anyone?) all while
unleashing a dangerous spike in global food prices that's causing a
ripple effect of food shortages and rationing around the world.
>
> I think politicians need to spend less time bragging about their
latest greenwashing schemes and more time studying The Law of
Unintended Consequences. Because while growing fuel on cropland
initially sounds like a great idea, any honest assessment of the
total impact leads you to the inescapable conclusion that biofuels
are largely a government-sponsored scam. With a few exceptions (see
below), biofuels produce no net increase in energy output, and they
cause food shortages while creating strong economic incentives for
the destruction of the very rainforests we desperately need to
stabilize the climate!
>
> And now we're just starting to see the early signs of the economic
and social insanity that has been unleashed by this foolish pursuit
of biofuels around the world: Food rationing in Sam's Club stores in
the U.S., rapidly-rising prices on bread, rice and corn, and price
spikes at cafeterias and restaurants that depend on these staple
ingredients. The price of rice has tripled globally, unleashing riots
in Haiti and Bangladesh, and the United Nations has issued warnings
that millions of people around the world now face starvation because
they can't afford to buy food. Americans are even starting to hoard
food once again, after years of avoiding basic preparedness measures.
(One benefit to all this, however, is that farmers are actually
getting paid decent prices for their crops now, after years of
operating on the verge of bankruptcy...)
>
> Most biofuel efforts are a shamNot all of these price spikes are
due to the conversion of croplands to biofuel fields, but much of it
is. As a result, it's suddenly becoming obvious to nearly everyone
that the pursuit of biofuels, as currently structured, is a grand
greenwashing hoax. It doesn't produce more fuel than it consumes, and
it drives up food prices to boot!
>
> Now, there are biofuels programs that really do work. The growing
and harvesting of sugar cane in Brazil, for example, provides an 8-to-
1 return on energy investment. But even that pursuit is tarnished by
claims of unsafe work environments and massive environmental
pollution (the sugar cane fields are burned before being harvested, a
process that releases massive amounts of CO2 into the environment).
>
> The only truly promising biofuels technology available today is
based on microalgae. Feed CO2 to a vat of algae, and you can produce
biofuels cheaply and responsibly, without destroying the environment.
But these programs are only in experimental phases. Nobody is
producing biofuels on a large scale from algae farms (not yet,
anyway).
>
> And that leaves the great American breadbasket: The corn and wheat
fields. It is here that food is now being displaced by crops grown
for biofuel processing. So where a farmer used to grow corn as a food
source, he's now growing it to sell to a biofuel processing facility
which turns the corn into ethanol. Obviously, the laws of economics
come into play here, meaning that every bushel of corn used for
biofuels production means one less bushel of corn available for food.
Factor in the laws of supply and demand, and you can see that the
more crops we use for biofuels, the higher the prices will rise for
food.
>
> Politicians, it seems, have no understanding of economics. They
need to study the basics as they are presented in Henry Hazlitt's
Book, Economics in One Lesson, which is a Libertarian-oriented guide
that explains basic economics to anyone willing to learn. Economics
is focused on the study of human behavior, or more precisely,
consumer choice. Now, it seems, consumers are about to be faced with
a choice they never wanted to have to make: Should I buy fuel, or
food?
>
> In other words: Do I want to drive my car, or do I want to eat?
>
> You can have fuel or food, but not bothUnder a biofuels-focused
agricultural policy, the same limited resources (soil, sunlight and
water, essentially) can be used for only one thing at a time. You
can't use the corn twice, obviously (you can't eat the corn and
process it for biofuels at the same time), so you've got to make a
choice: Will you grow the corn for fuel, or for food?
>
> The more you grow for fuel, of course, the less food you have, and
that drives up food prices. But if you swing back the other way and
grow more corn for food to ease food prices, the fuel prices go up.
Trying to solve both problems at once is a bit like trying to pick up
a wet watermelon seed with your fingers: It keeps slipping to the
side.
>
> One thing that has become abundantly clear in all this is that the
era of cheap food and cheap fuel is over. I've written about this on
NaturalNews, where I use the term "food bubble" to describe the most
recent era of cheap food. As it turns out, cheap food is only made
possible by cheap oil, and with oil now approaching $120 a barrel (a
price that virtually no one thought possible just two years ago),
food prices are simultaneously skyrocketing. (Modern farming
practices use a lot of fossil fuel. So does transporting food across
the country or around the world. Eat local, folks!)
>
> Add to this the fact that global climate change is already
underway, altering weather patterns and creating floods, droughts and
other agricultural calamities, and you start to get the picture of
just how bad things might get. That's not even to mention the very
serious problem of collapsing honeybee populations due to a
mysterious condition called colony collapse disorder that's
devastating honeybee populations across North America right this
minute. Honeybees, in case you didn't know, pollinate plants that
represent about 30% of all the calories consumed by Americans. That's
about one out of every three bites of your dinner, and it all depends
on the "free" work performed by honeybees -- bees who are apparently
going on strike by refusing to keep working for us.
>
> Prepare for mass global starvationSo, to repeat, the food bubble is
now starting to implode. What does it all mean? It means that as
these economic and climate realities unfold, our world is facing
massive starvation and food shortages. The first place this will be
felt is in poor developing nations. It is there that people live on
the edge of economic livelihood, where even a 20% rise in the price
of basic food staples can put desperately-needed calories out of
reach of tens of millions of families. If something is not done to
rescue these people from their plight, they will starve to death.
>
> Wealthy nations like America, Canada, the U.K., and others will be
able to absorb the price increases, so you won't see mass starvation
in North America any time soon (unless, of course, all the honeybees
die, in which case prepare to start chewing your shoelaces...), but
it will lead to significant increases in the cost of living, annoying
consumers and reducing the amount of money available for other
purchases (like vacations, cars, fuel, etc.). That, of course, will
put downward pressure on the national economy.
>
> But what we're seeing right now, folks, is just a small
foreshadowing of events to come in the next couple of decades. Think
about it: If these minor climate changes and foolish biofuels
policies are already unleashing alarming rises in food prices, just
imagine what we'll see when Peak Oil kicks in and global oil supplies
really start to dwindle. When gasoline is $10 a gallon in the U.S.,
how expensive will food be around the world? The answer, of course,
is that it will be triple or quadruple the current price. And that
means many more people will starve.
>
> Fossil fuels, of course, aren't the only limiting factor
threatening future food supplies on our planet: There's also fossil
water. That's water from underground aquifers that's being pumped up
to the surface to water crops, then it's lost to evaporation.
Countries like India and China are depending heavily on fossil water
to irrigate their crops, and not surprisingly, the water levels in
those aquifers is dropping steadily. In a few more years (as little
as five years in some cases), that water will simply run dry, and the
crops that were once irrigated to feed a nation will dry up and turn
to dust. Mass starvation will only take a few months to kick in.
Think North Korea after a season of floods. Perhaps 95% of humanity
is just one crop season away from mass starvation.
>
> The carrying capacity of planet Earth has reached its apexThe truth
about all this, folks, is that the resources on our planet can only
support a limited population, and I think we've over-populated the
planet to a point where we're wiping out non-renewable resources at
an alarming rate. This means a population correction is due. When
there are too many people consuming too much food, using up too much
water and burning too much oil, you can get away with a rapid
expansion for a little while (a few decades, perhaps), but eventually
reality kicks in and there's a global population correction that
brings the population size back down to levels that can be sustained
on the planet.
>
> It's not a pretty picture. We're talking about the loss of a
billion human lives, perhaps more. This is what's coming. It's as
predictable as the laws of gravity. When you over-populate a planet
and use up all the resources, the population eventually finds itself
in a resource panic, and mass death ensues. You can observe the same
thing with colonies of bacteria on a nutrient-rich petri dish: They
will expand at an accelerating rate, multiplying their numbers until
there's no more food left in the petri dish, and then they will
experience a massive die-off. You might say that human beings are
smarter than bacteria, and that's true, but as current events are
clearly demonstrating, they're not much wiser! They still doom
themselves to the same stupid fate by refusing to look at the long-
term implications of their actions.
>
> Humans are really good at making babies and eating food, but
they're terrible at thinking even ten years ahead about the
implications of their present-day decisions. That's why the global
population control masterminds call people "feeders and breeders," by
the way. Those are the two things human beings do extremely well:
Fornicate and clean their plate. (Not necessarily in that order,
though...)
>
> The economies of our world have, sadly, been based on economic
models that strongly encourage this kind of consumption and growth.
We live in a "throwaway economy," where people are encouraged to
consume and expend as much as possible. No corporation makes money
teaching people how to use less. And so we've pushed for aggressive
expansion since about the 1950's: Build more, eat more, consume more.
We've turned farm lands into housing tracts, and rainforests into
biofuel fields. We've over-fished the oceans, over-farmed the soils
and over-extended ourselves to the point where a population
correction is inevitable. We, the human race, have painted ourselves
into a desperate corner, and the simple fact of the matter is that
unless we quickly discover some new energy technology that provides
the world with cheap, plentiful energy, we are headed straight
towards a global population implosion that will leave a billion or
more people dead.
>
> And biofuels, of course, are no answer for this problem. You cannot
grow enough corn to solve the problems of an expansionist,
imperialistic race of beings (that's us humans) who have taken over
the planet like a cancer tumor, wiped out countless species,
destroyed huge swaths of natural rainforests, poisoned the oceans and
rivers, polluted the skies and, at every opportunity, betrayed the
very Earth that has given us a home in the first place. Humans can
betray Mother Nature for a while, but in the end, we will pay a dear
price for our own arrogance, greed and lack of vision. The human race
is being sent back to kindergarten, where it needs to learn some
basic lessons about living in harmony with the planet. Lessons like:
Don't use up all the resources in a few generations. Don't think
you're smarter than nature. And never forget how much Mother Nature
does for us all for free! (Like pollinating the crops, producing
oxygen, cleaning the air, water, etc. Read the book
> Mycelium Running to learn more...)
>
> In time, we will either learn these lessons, or we will perish.
It's really as simple as that. And all these suddenly-popular "save
the planet" efforts we've seen by corporations recently are just a
joke. We can't save the planet. The planet will be fine after we're
gone, folks. What we're trying to save here is human civilization.
The very idea that we think we can "save the planet" is arrogant all
by itself. All we can do is respect the planet and find ways to live
with it as polite guests living on a generous host.
>
> Whether humans survive the next hundred years or not, planet Earth
certainly will. And frankly, the planet will do much better without
us. With humans gone, the Earth would quickly be restored to a
vibrant, pristine state, full of life and abundance. The Earth
doesn't need us, folks. But we, of course, certainly need the Earth.
The real question is this: Can we learn to play nice and treat the
Earth with respect? If not, we won't be around much longer to worry
about it.
>
> Nature needs to be granted legal standingOne final thought: I am an
advocate of the idea that Mother Nature needs to be granted legal
standing. I believe that humans do not automatically "own" nature,
and that we cannot simply cut down forests, bulldoze mountainsides,
fish the oceans, build dams and engage in other highly disruptive
activities without first getting permission and paying royalties to a
global Mother Nature Authority that stands up for the rights of the
planet. Nature is not ours to own or destroy. We, as the guests on
this planet, have no right to simply assume ownership over other
living systems on this planet and exploit them for our own financial
gain. The "destroy and consume" model of free market enterprise is
simply not sustainable, folks. It does not lead us to a happy future;
it leads to our own destruction.
>
> Or, put another way, over the last hundred years or so, mankind has
committed countless acts of violence against nature. It has pursued a
policy of committing atrocities against Mother Nature -- a kind of
genocide against anything non-human (animals, plants, fish, etc.).
Humans have proven themselves to be, by far, the most violent and
destructive life forms to ever exist on this planet. And yet paired
with that violence, humans are an infant species, with little or no
foresight, with virtually no ability to see the future implications
of their own actions. We are, in a sense, the dumbest intelligent
creatures ever to walk the face of this Earth.
>
> We can land a man on the moon, but we can't even prevent our own
rainforests from being clear-cut by soybean farmers and cattle
ranchers. We can develop high-tech medicines, but we can't even
openly recognize the more powerful medicines found in a simple
dandelion plant. We can create amazing computers and televisions and
internet technologies the beam information across the globe at the
speed of light, but we pollute those information pathways with
corporate ads for useless stuff and dangerous medicines that only
make our fellow humans beings less enlightened. We are capable of so
much, and yet we have accomplished so little. We are, by any honest
assessment, a race of little children, running around the planet with
far too much power and not nearly enough maturity. We're like a band
of infants with flamethrowers.
>
> Frankly, we don't deserve this planet, and Mother Nature is about
to take it away from us. It's time for us to either grow up, or
perish. And all these people who say "we have to protect the economy,
not the environment" should probably just be rounded up and shipped
off to Mars where they can play with the Martian dust all they want
until they finally get the picture.
>
> ###
>
> About the author: Mike Adams is a holistic nutritionist with a
mission to teach personal and planetary health to the public He is a
prolific writer and has published thousands of articles, interviews,
reports and consumer guides, reaching millions of readers with
information that is saving lives and improving personal health around
the world. Adams is an honest, independent journalist and accepts no
money or commissions on the third-party products he writes about or
the companies he promotes. In 2007, Adams launched EcoLEDs, a maker
of energy efficient LED lights that greatly reduce CO2 emissions. He
also founded an environmentally-friendly online retailer called
BetterLifeGoods.com that uses retail profits to help support consumer
advocacy programs. He's also the CEO of a highly successful email
newsletter software company that develops software used to send
permission email campaigns to subscribers. Adams is currently the
executive director of the Consumer Wellness
> Center, a 501(c)3 non-profit, and enjoys outdoor activities,
nature photography, Pilates and adult gymnastics. Known on the 'net
as 'the Health Ranger,' Adams shares his ethics, mission statements
and personal health statistics at www.HealthRanger.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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Try it now.
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[Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

2008-04-23T13:28:00.001-07:00

---I agree and let's take in further...one of the most important
functions of our president is who they appoints to high level
government positions. Example: when Bill Clinton left office he had
set aside millions of acres here in the west in the "road-less act".
One of Bush's first moves was to overturn that. In conjunction, he
appointed a Secretary of the Interior who has helped big energy to
devastate a once pristine area..
I am far more focused on these high level positions because I'm all
too aware of the negative impact they can have.
Considering what the last Clinton tried to do for us, makes me
believe Hillary would have at least some of the same values.

In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Carol Roberts <carolroberts1@...>
wrote:
>
> In what context? I assume in the context of this presidential
election?
> My reality is that the power of a president is limited, that no
matter
> what campaign promises are made the realities of this country's
current
> crises are going to hamper and restrict anyone's ability to make
great
> changes all at once. My reality includes a wimp-congress that has
> overall bowed down to George Bush for some unknown reason, time and
time
> again. Unless a dem pres has a dem congress the only thing that
will be
> accomplished is another round of Repub driven investigations and
> witch-hunts which will effectively derail a Dem
administration....Carol
>
> Sandra Goodwin wrote:
> >
> >
> > My reality is the mother of a bi-racial son and 4 multi-racial
> > grandsons. What's yours? And I'm not being snarky because I really
> > do want to know.
> >
> > In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Dems2008%40yahoogroups.com>,
Carol
> > Roberts <carolroberts1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > That depends on whose reality you want to face. Regardless of
> > which
> > > candidate YOU support, there is someone else supporting a
different
> > > candidate, and the realities are different on each
side.....Carol
>

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Email Evan Bayh NOW!!!

2008-04-23T13:26:00.000-07:00

Yes- What Catpurdy said:

----- Original Message ----
From: "catpurdy@aol.com" <catpurdy@aol.com>
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:48:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Dems2008] Re: Email Evan Bayh NOW!!!

This is 5 days old - get over it, she's not dropping out.

mgommesen@yahoo.com writes:

Staying in the race is hurting Clinton worse than Obama
Ongoing nomination fight hurting Clinton more than Obama
By Kathy Miller | The Hillary Project
Posted 5 days, 7 hours ago email to friend tool nameclose
tool goes here
By: Charles Babington &Trevor Tompson, AP

In a dramatic reversal, an Associated Press-Yahoo! News poll found
that a clear majority of Democratic voters now say Sen. Barack Obama
has a better chance of defeating Republican Sen. John McCain in
November than Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

While Obama and Clinton are both sustaining dents and dings from
their lengthy presidential fight, the former first lady is clearly
suffering more. Democratic voters no longer see her as the party's
strongest contender for the White House.

Voters of all types have gotten a better sense of Obama, who was an
obscure Illinois legislator just four years ago. As more people moved
from the "I don't know him" category in the AP-Yahoo! News poll, more
rated Obama as inexperienced, unethical and dishonest. And 15 percent
erroneously think he's a Muslim, thanks in part to disinformation
widely spread on the Internet.

But Obama's positive ratings have climbed as well, while Clinton —
widely known since the early 1990s — has been less able to change
people's views of her. And when those views have shifted, it has hurt
her more than helped.

The New York senator's ratings for being honest, likable, ethical and
refreshing have fallen since January, and Obama scores higher than
she does in all those categories.

In late January, before Obama scored 11 straight primary and caucus
victories, 56 percent of Democrats saw Clinton as the stronger
nominee, compared to 33 percent for Obama. Now, Obama leads on that
question, 56 to 43 percent.

Still, the poll, conducted by Knowledge Networks, contains some
worrisome signs for the first-term senator. Those rating him as "not
at all honest," for example, jumped from 18 percent last fall to 27
percent in April. It came as he was put on the defensive over
incendiary comments by his former pastor. But many holding such views
are Republicans or conservative independents, who would be unlikely
to vote in a Democratic primary or support a Democrat in the fall,
anyway.

The most encouraging sign for Obama is that many Democrats who
previously saw Clinton as their party's best hope now give him that
role. About one-third of them still prefer Clinton, but they have
lost confidence in her electability.

"I would love to vote for Hillary," said Nancy Costello of Bellevue,
Ky., one of the more than 1,800 randomly selected adults whose
opinions are rechecked every few months. "I'm 67, and I'll probably
never get another chance to vote for a woman."

But Obama now appears to be the stronger candidate, she said, and
electing a Democrat in November is paramount. If McCain wins and
continues many of President Bush's economic and foreign policies,
Costello said, "I think I would just sit down and cry."

**************
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[Dems2008] The Biofuels Scam, Food Shortages and the Coming Collapse of the Human Population

2008-04-23T13:23:00.001-07:00

I wish he'd mentioned industrial hemp, but, . . . Time also had a great article (to use as a starting point) about "The Clean Energy Scam" . . . http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/023091.html

The Biofuels Scam, Food Shortages and the Coming Collapse of the Human Population

by Mike Adams

(NaturalNews) It was one of the dumbest "green" ideas ever proposed: Convert millions of acres of cropland into fields for growing ethanol from corn, then burn fossil fuels to harvest the ethanol, expending more energy to extract the fuel than you get from the fuel itself! Meanwhile, sit back and proclaim you've achieved a monumental green victory (President Bush, anyone?) all while unleashing a dangerous spike in global food prices that's causing a ripple effect of food shortages and rationing around the world.

I think politicians need to spend less time bragging about their latest greenwashing schemes and more time studying The Law of Unintended Consequences. Because while growing fuel on cropland initially sounds like a great idea, any honest assessment of the total impact leads you to the inescapable conclusion that biofuels are largely a government-sponsored scam. With a few exceptions (see below), biofuels produce no net increase in energy output, and they cause food shortages while creating strong economic incentives for the destruction of the very rainforests we desperately need to stabilize the climate!

And now we're just starting to see the early signs of the economic and social insanity that has been unleashed by this foolish pursuit of biofuels around the world: Food rationing in Sam's Club stores in the U.S., rapidly-rising prices on bread, rice and corn, and price spikes at cafeterias and restaurants that depend on these staple ingredients. The price of rice has tripled globally, unleashing riots in Haiti and Bangladesh, and the United Nations has issued warnings that millions of people around the world now face starvation because they can't afford to buy food. Americans are even starting to hoard food once again, after years of avoiding basic preparedness measures. (One benefit to all this, however, is that farmers are actually getting paid decent prices for their crops now, after years of operating on the verge of bankruptcy...)

Most biofuel efforts are a sham

Not all of these price spikes are due to the conversion of croplands to biofuel fields, but much of it is. As a result, it's suddenly becoming obvious to nearly everyone that the pursuit of biofuels, as currently structured, is a grand greenwashing hoax. It doesn't produce more fuel than it consumes, and it drives up food prices to boot!

Now, there are biofuels programs that really do work. The growing and harvesting of sugar cane in Brazil, for example, provides an 8-to-1 return on energy investment. But even that pursuit is tarnished by claims of unsafe work environments and massive environmental pollution (the sugar cane fields are burned before being harvested, a process that releases massive amounts of CO2 into the environment).

The only truly promising biofuels technology available today is based on microalgae. Feed CO2 to a vat of algae, and you can produce biofuels cheaply and responsibly, without destroying the environment. But these programs are only in experimental phases. Nobody is producing biofuels on a large scale from algae farms (not yet, anyway).

And that leaves the great American breadbasket: The corn and wheat fields. It is here that food is now being displaced by crops grown for biofuel processing. So where a farmer used to grow corn as a food source, he's now growing it to sell to a biofuel processing facility which turns the corn into ethanol. Obviously, the laws of economics come into play here, meaning that every bushel of corn used for biofuels production means one less bushel of corn available for food. Factor in the laws of supply and demand, and you can see that the more crops we use for biofuels, the higher the prices will rise for food.

Politicians, it seems, have no understanding of economics. They need to study the basics as they are presented in Henry Hazlitt's Book, Economics in One Lesson, which is a Libertarian-oriented guide that explains basic economics to anyone willing to learn. Economics is focused on the study of human behavior, or more precisely, consumer choice. Now, it seems, consumers are about to be faced with a choice they never wanted to have to make: Should I buy fuel, or food?

In other words: Do I want to drive my car, or do I want to eat?

You can have fuel or food, but not both

Under a biofuels-focused agricultural policy, the same limited resources (soil, sunlight and water, essentially) can be used for only one thing at a time. You can't use the corn twice, obviously (you can't eat the corn and process it for biofuels at the same time), so you've got to make a choice: Will you grow the corn for fuel, or for food?

The more you grow for fuel, of course, the less food you have, and that drives up food prices. But if you swing back the other way and grow more corn for food to ease food prices, the fuel prices go up. Trying to solve both problems at once is a bit like trying to pick up a wet watermelon seed with your fingers: It keeps slipping to the side.

One thing that has become abundantly clear in all this is that the era of cheap food and cheap fuel is over. I've written about this on NaturalNews, where I use the term "food bubble" to describe the most recent era of cheap food. As it turns out, cheap food is only made possible by cheap oil, and with oil now approaching $120 a barrel (a price that virtually no one thought possible just two years ago), food prices are simultaneously skyrocketing. (Modern farming practices use a lot of fossil fuel. So does transporting food across the country or around the world. Eat local, folks!)

Add to this the fact that global climate change is already underway, altering weather patterns and creating floods, droughts and other agricultural calamities, and you start to get the picture of just how bad things might get. That's not even to mention the very serious problem of collapsing honeybee populations due to a mysterious condition called colony collapse disorder that's devastating honeybee populations across North America right this minute. Honeybees, in case you didn't know, pollinate plants that represent about 30% of all the calories consumed by Americans. That's about one out of every three bites of your dinner, and it all depends on the "free" work performed by honeybees -- bees who are apparently going on strike by refusing to keep working for us.

Prepare for mass global starvation

So, to repeat, the food bubble is now starting to implode. What does it all mean? It means that as these economic and climate realities unfold, our world is facing massive starvation and food shortages. The first place this will be felt is in poor developing nations. It is there that people live on the edge of economic livelihood, where even a 20% rise in the price of basic food staples can put desperately-needed calories out of reach of tens of millions of families. If something is not done to rescue these people from their plight, they will starve to death.

Wealthy nations like America, Canada, the U.K., and others will be able to absorb the price increases, so you won't see mass starvation in North America any time soon (unless, of course, all the honeybees die, in which case prepare to start chewing your shoelaces...), but it will lead to significant increases in the cost of living, annoying consumers and reducing the amount of money available for other purchases (like vacations, cars, fuel, etc.). That, of course, will put downward pressure on the national economy.

But what we're seeing right now, folks, is just a small foreshadowing of events to come in the next couple of decades. Think about it: If these minor climate changes and foolish biofuels policies are already unleashing alarming rises in food prices, just imagine what we'll see when Peak Oil kicks in and global oil supplies really start to dwindle. When gasoline is $10 a gallon in the U.S., how expensive will food be around the world? The answer, of course, is that it will be triple or quadruple the current price. And that means many more people will starve.

Fossil fuels, of course, aren't the only limiting factor threatening future food supplies on our planet: There's also fossil water. That's water from underground aquifers that's being pumped up to the surface to water crops, then it's lost to evaporation. Countries like India and China are depending heavily on fossil water to irrigate their crops, and not surprisingly, the water levels in those aquifers is dropping steadily. In a few more years (as little as five years in some cases), that water will simply run dry, and the crops that were once irrigated to feed a nation will dry up and turn to dust. Mass starvation will only take a few months to kick in. Think North Korea after a season of floods. Perhaps 95% of humanity is just one crop season away from mass starvation.

The carrying capacity of planet Earth has reached its apex

The truth about all this, folks, is that the resources on our planet can only support a limited population, and I think we've over-populated the planet to a point where we're wiping out non-renewable resources at an alarming rate. This means a population correction is due. When there are too many people consuming too much food, using up too much water and burning too much oil, you can get away with a rapid expansion for a little while (a few decades, perhaps), but eventually reality kicks in and there's a global population correction that brings the population size back down to levels that can be sustained on the planet.

It's not a pretty picture. We're talking about the loss of a billion human lives, perhaps more. This is what's coming. It's as predictable as the laws of gravity. When you over-populate a planet and use up all the resources, the population eventually finds itself in a resource panic, and mass death ensues. You can observe the same thing with colonies of bacteria on a nutrient-rich petri dish: They will expand at an accelerating rate, multiplying their numbers until there's no more food left in the petri dish, and then they will experience a massive die-off. You might say that human beings are smarter than bacteria, and that's true, but as current events are clearly demonstrating, they're not much wiser! They still doom themselves to the same stupid fate by refusing to look at the long-term implications of their actions.

Humans are really good at making babies and eating food, but they're terrible at thinking even ten years ahead about the implications of their present-day decisions. That's why the global population control masterminds call people "feeders and breeders," by the way. Those are the two things human beings do extremely well: Fornicate and clean their plate. (Not necessarily in that order, though...)

The economies of our world have, sadly, been based on economic models that strongly encourage this kind of consumption and growth. We live in a "throwaway economy," where people are encouraged to consume and expend as much as possible. No corporation makes money teaching people how to use less. And so we've pushed for aggressive expansion since about the 1950's: Build more, eat more, consume more. We've turned farm lands into housing tracts, and rainforests into biofuel fields. We've over-fished the oceans, over-farmed the soils and over-extended ourselves to the point where a population correction is inevitable. We, the human race, have painted ourselves into a desperate corner, and the simple fact of the matter is that unless we quickly discover some new energy technology that provides the world with cheap, plentiful energy, we are headed straight towards a global population implosion that will leave a billion or more people dead.

And biofuels, of course, are no answer for this problem. You cannot grow enough corn to solve the problems of an expansionist, imperialistic race of beings (that's us humans) who have taken over the planet like a cancer tumor, wiped out countless species, destroyed huge swaths of natural rainforests, poisoned the oceans and rivers, polluted the skies and, at every opportunity, betrayed the very Earth that has given us a home in the first place. Humans can betray Mother Nature for a while, but in the end, we will pay a dear price for our own arrogance, greed and lack of vision. The human race is being sent back to kindergarten, where it needs to learn some basic lessons about living in harmony with the planet. Lessons like: Don't use up all the resources in a few generations. Don't think you're smarter than nature. And never forget how much Mother Nature does for us all for free! (Like pollinating the crops, producing oxygen, cleaning the air, water, etc. Read the book Mycelium Running to learn more...)

In time, we will either learn these lessons, or we will perish. It's really as simple as that. And all these suddenly-popular "save the planet" efforts we've seen by corporations recently are just a joke. We can't save the planet. The planet will be fine after we're gone, folks. What we're trying to save here is human civilization. The very idea that we think we can "save the planet" is arrogant all by itself. All we can do is respect the planet and find ways to live with it as polite guests living on a generous host.

Whether humans survive the next hundred years or not, planet Earth certainly will. And frankly, the planet will do much better without us. With humans gone, the Earth would quickly be restored to a vibrant, pristine state, full of life and abundance. The Earth doesn't need us, folks. But we, of course, certainly need the Earth. The real question is this: Can we learn to play nice and treat the Earth with respect? If not, we won't be around much longer to worry about it.

Nature needs to be granted legal standing

One final thought: I am an advocate of the idea that Mother Nature needs to be granted legal standing. I believe that humans do not automatically "own" nature, and that we cannot simply cut down forests, bulldoze mountainsides, fish the oceans, build dams and engage in other highly disruptive activities without first getting permission and paying royalties to a global Mother Nature Authority that stands up for the rights of the planet. Nature is not ours to own or destroy. We, as the guests on this planet, have no right to simply assume ownership over other living systems on this planet and exploit them for our own financial gain. The "destroy and consume" model of free market enterprise is simply not sustainable, folks. It does not lead us to a happy future; it leads to our own destruction.

Or, put another way, over the last hundred years or so, mankind has committed countless acts of violence against nature. It has pursued a policy of committing atrocities against Mother Nature -- a kind of genocide against anything non-human (animals, plants, fish, etc.). Humans have proven themselves to be, by far, the most violent and destructive life forms to ever exist on this planet. And yet paired with that violence, humans are an infant species, with little or no foresight, with virtually no ability to see the future implications of their own actions. We are, in a sense, the dumbest intelligent creatures ever to walk the face of this Earth.

We can land a man on the moon, but we can't even prevent our own rainforests from being clear-cut by soybean farmers and cattle ranchers. We can develop high-tech medicines, but we can't even openly recognize the more powerful medicines found in a simple dandelion plant. We can create amazing computers and televisions and internet technologies the beam information across the globe at the speed of light, but we pollute those information pathways with corporate ads for useless stuff and dangerous medicines that only make our fellow humans beings less enlightened. We are capable of so much, and yet we have accomplished so little. We are, by any honest assessment, a race of little children, running around the planet with far too much power and not nearly enough maturity. We're like a band of infants with flamethrowers.

Frankly, we don't deserve this planet, and Mother Nature is about to take it away from us. It's time for us to either grow up, or perish. And all these people who say "we have to protect the economy, not the environment" should probably just be rounded up and shipped off to Mars where they can play with the Martian dust all they want until they finally get the picture.

###

About the author: Mike Adams is a holistic nutritionist with a mission to teach personal and planetary health to the public He is a prolific writer and has published thousands of articles, interviews, reports and consumer guides, reaching millions of readers with information that is saving lives and improving personal health around the world. Adams is an honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on the third-party products he writes about or the companies he promotes. In 2007, Adams launched EcoLEDs, a maker of energy efficient LED lights that greatly reduce CO2 emissions. He also founded an environmentally-friendly online retailer called BetterLifeGoods.com that uses retail profits to help support consumer advocacy programs. He's also the CEO of a highly successful email newsletter software company that develops software used to send permission email campaigns to subscribers. Adams is currently the executive director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a 501(c)3 non-profit, and enjoys outdoor activities, nature photography, Pilates and adult gymnastics. Known on the 'net as 'the Health Ranger,' Adams shares his ethics, mission statements and personal health statistics at www.HealthRanger.org

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Re: [Dems2008] Sovereign immunity on trial

2008-04-23T12:49:00.002-07:00

In a message dated 4/23/2008 3:42:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, carolroberts1@verizon.net writes:

I guess you decided not to leave the list after all....Carol

suzi meyers wrote:
>
>
>Yet one more attack on soverignty of tribal govt.

and I hope you don't leave suzi.

**************
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Re: [Dems2008] Re:Hillary: The Low Road to Victory

2008-04-23T12:49:00.001-07:00

Ras, you are an interesting individual. I take it that you are in a graduate program at a university, and teaching.
a professor...........student...........research?

----- Original Message ----
From: raschueller <raschueller@yahoo.com>
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:28:29 PM
Subject: [Dems2008] Re:Hillary: The Low Road to Victory

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Edward Hochman <whovian7_2000@...> wrote:
>
> who are you responding to ras. might be good to have part of the
letter and individual you are responding to .
>
> ed
>
Sorry I was responding on the fly... I have been busy tutoring for
finals and getting out my papers so I don't check for mistakes.

this was in response to Dee's allegation that Obama began the negative
ad blitz and that she was inundated with anti-hillary ads. So I asked
her to cite one.

------------------------------------

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: Email Evan Bayh NOW!!!

2008-04-23T12:48:00.000-07:00

This is 5 days old - get over it, she's not dropping out.

mgommesen@yahoo.com writes:

Staying in the race is hurting Clinton worse than Obama
Ongoing nomination fight hurting Clinton more than Obama
By Kathy Miller | The Hillary Project
Posted 5 days, 7 hours ago email to friend tool nameclose
tool goes here
By: Charles Babington &Trevor Tompson, AP

In a dramatic reversal, an Associated Press-Yahoo! News poll found
that a clear majority of Democratic voters now say Sen. Barack Obama
has a better chance of defeating Republican Sen. John McCain in
November than Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

While Obama and Clinton are both sustaining dents and dings from
their lengthy presidential fight, the former first lady is clearly
suffering more. Democratic voters no longer see her as the party's
strongest contender for the White House.

Voters of all types have gotten a better sense of Obama, who was an
obscure Illinois legislator just four years ago. As more people moved
from the "I don't know him" category in the AP-Yahoo! News poll, more
rated Obama as inexperienced, unethical and dishonest. And 15 percent
erroneously think he's a Muslim, thanks in part to disinformation
widely spread on the Internet.

But Obama's positive ratings have climbed as well, while Clinton —
widely known since the early 1990s — has been less able to change
people's views of her. And when those views have shifted, it has hurt
her more than helped.

The New York senator's ratings for being honest, likable, ethical and
refreshing have fallen since January, and Obama scores higher than
she does in all those categories.

In late January, before Obama scored 11 straight primary and caucus
victories, 56 percent of Democrats saw Clinton as the stronger
nominee, compared to 33 percent for Obama. Now, Obama leads on that
question, 56 to 43 percent.

Still, the poll, conducted by Knowledge Networks, contains some
worrisome signs for the first-term senator. Those rating him as "not
at all honest," for example, jumped from 18 percent last fall to 27
percent in April. It came as he was put on the defensive over
incendiary comments by his former pastor. But many holding such views
are Republicans or conservative independents, who would be unlikely
to vote in a Democratic primary or support a Democrat in the fall,
anyway.

The most encouraging sign for Obama is that many Democrats who
previously saw Clinton as their party's best hope now give him that
role. About one-third of them still prefer Clinton, but they have
lost confidence in her electability.

"I would love to vote for Hillary," said Nancy Costello of Bellevue,
Ky., one of the more than 1,800 randomly selected adults whose
opinions are rechecked every few months. "I'm 67, and I'll probably
never get another chance to vote for a woman."

But Obama now appears to be the stronger candidate, she said, and
electing a Democrat in November is paramount. If McCain wins and
continues many of President Bush's economic and foreign policies,
Costello said, "I think I would just sit down and cry."

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: View in Massachussetts

2008-04-23T12:47:00.000-07:00

raschueller@yahoo.com writes:

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, catpurdy@... wrote:
>
>raschueller@... writes:
>
>>When asked the question "Are suicide bombings always a violation
>>of Islam," they could not answer "Yes. Always." Instead, these
>>"moderate British Muslims" had to answer "It depends.
>>
>
>This doesn't bother you?
>
>
I think I addressed this pretty completely, but just to amke sure...
are you saying you agree with this guy?

No, I'm NOT saying and I NEVER said I agreed with the point of the article and that's what drives me nuts about you. You take everything to the nth degree - because I ask a question, that's enough, in your mind, to convict me of something - makes it impossible to have a conversation.
Yes, I DO wonder why they couldn't answer that question in the affirmative and it bothers me - but that does not translate into "I think Islam is a terrorist religion". I do worry that even moderate clerics are sometimes afraid to speak out and that the extreme strain is reaching further - however, I still think that the majority of those who practice the religion do so peacefully.

**************
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Re: [Dems2008] Sovereign immunity on trial

2008-04-23T12:37:00.000-07:00

I guess you decided not to leave the list after all....Carol

suzi meyers wrote:
>
>
> Yet one more attack on soverignty of tribal govt.

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

2008-04-23T12:35:00.000-07:00

In what context? I assume in the context of this presidential election?
My reality is that the power of a president is limited, that no matter
what campaign promises are made the realities of this country's current
crises are going to hamper and restrict anyone's ability to make great
changes all at once. My reality includes a wimp-congress that has
overall bowed down to George Bush for some unknown reason, time and time
again. Unless a dem pres has a dem congress the only thing that will be
accomplished is another round of Repub driven investigations and
witch-hunts which will effectively derail a Dem administration....Carol

Sandra Goodwin wrote:
>
>
> My reality is the mother of a bi-racial son and 4 multi-racial
> grandsons. What's yours? And I'm not being snarky because I really
> do want to know.
>
> In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Dems2008%40yahoogroups.com>, Carol
> Roberts <carolroberts1@...> wrote:
> >
> > That depends on whose reality you want to face. Regardless of
> which
> > candidate YOU support, there is someone else supporting a different
> > candidate, and the realities are different on each side.....Carol

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Re: [Dems2008] Sovereign immunity on trial

2008-04-23T12:31:00.001-07:00

Yet one more attack on soverignty of tribal govt. Similar results sought in attack by Obama and the CBC in Oklahoma. We tried to discuss earlier, but Obama fans don't seem to care at all. I thank God someone does care. Thanks for posting! Hopefully Obama and Hillary supporters alike can agree on something. It would be great! Can we ever come together for what is right? I hope you find it as sickening as I do the lack of positive response you will get from this board in general.

Shirl4116@aol.com wrote:

http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Article?article_id=17679

Sovereign immunity on trial

HCN ONLINE - April 22, 2008 by Terri C. Hansen

Tribal governments may no longer be exempt from being sued by tribal members. Since the early 1800s, the U.S. government has acknowledged that Indian nations have full legal rights to manage their own affairs. This doctrine of tribal âsovereign immunityâ has prevented legal attacks on tribal governments and shielded them from lawsuits brought by states, groups or individuals. But the recent 9th Circuit Court decision that sovereign immunity doesnât protect the Blackfeet Nation of Montana has "far-reaching and grave implications for all of Indian Country," said Steve Doherty, the tribeâs lead attorney.
The court ruled 2-1 that the tribe waived its sovereign immunity through the language in its housing regulations, making the Blackfeet Housing Authority and not the Department of Housing and Urban Development liable for faulty, mold-infested tribal homes built under programs regulated by HUD. (The problem is not just confined to the Blackfeet: A 2003 HUD study found toxic mold in 15 percent of tribal homes nationwide.) The Blackfeet, like most tribes that receive housing funds from HUD, adopted a boilerplate provision provided by HUD, which the court deemed a waiver of sovereign immunity.
The courtâs interpretation may have serious repercussions for tribes. âThis is one of the arguments we made, that the same or similar kind of language is commonly seen in agreements with tribal entities,â said Doherty. âIf the decision goes forward, it would expand the grounds for finding an implied waiver of immunity.â

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[Dems2008] Has Hillary Clinton's Campaign Caused a Feminist Reawakening?

2008-04-23T12:29:00.001-07:00

http://nymag.com/news/features/46011/

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[Dems2008] Re:Hillary: The Low Road to Victory

2008-04-23T12:28:00.000-07:00

this was in response to Dee's allegation that Obama began the negative
ad blitz and that she was inundated with anti-hillary ads. So I asked
her to cite one.

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Re: [Dems2008] my absolutely last wwe barack HRC and mccain clip- also last youtube clip (i bet you are saying thank goodness)

2008-04-23T12:27:00.000-07:00

That is just wrong on so many levels.
But thanks, I didn't even know they were doing that.

Edward Hochman <whovian7_2000@Yahoo.com> wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aeNV18yV_s&feature=related

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[Dems2008] Repost: Global warming rage lets global hunger grow and an intro to the Hemp Solution

Re: [Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

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Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

Re: [Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

[Dems2008] Re: Food crisis

[Dems2008] Re: Food crisis

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[Dems2008] Re: Clinton's Pa. win comes with cash prize $3.5 million donated following victory over ObamaThe Associated Press

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OBAMA:

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[Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

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[Dems2008] Re: Food crisis

Re:[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies (sigh)

[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary

Re:Re: [Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

Re: [Dems2008] PA Exit Polls

[Dems2008] Washington Post editorial: The Problem With BioFuels

Re: [Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

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Re: [Dems2008] Re: View in Massachussetts

[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies...

[Dems2008] Re: It's a simple a question of Math!

[Dems2008] ras,have you not figured out cat's "issues" yet?

[Dems2008] Re: Outsourcing crisis intervention

[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary More Hillary Lies (sigh)

[Dems2008] Re: "Working Class"

[Dems2008] Tom, don't leave the lights on for us

[Dems2008] "working class"

[Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

[Dems2008] Re: "Working Class"

[Dems2008] Re: Hillary is no fighter except for Hillary

Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

Re: [Dems2008] It's a simple a question of Math!

[Dems2008] Re: "Working Class"

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[Dems2008] Edwards Backers Team Up With Obama

[Dems2008] Re: Obama backs out of NC debate

Re: [Dems2008] Re: "Working Class"

Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

Re: [Dems2008] Re: Our Founding Fathers Warned Us .... this is more boring than the last

Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

[Dems2008] Re: View in Massachussetts

Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

[Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

Re: [Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, . . . and Hillary is so for biofuels, too

Fueling Job Growth And A Green Economy

Hillary Clinton's Plan to Increase Biofuels Production and Create Clean Energy Jobs

[Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

Re: [Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

Re: [Dems2008] Re: View in Massachussetts

[Dems2008] Re: Our Founding Fathers Warned Us .... this is more boring than the last

[Dems2008] Re: The Biofuels Scam, Food Shortages and the Coming Collapse of the Human Population

[Dems2008] Re: a reader comment at NYTimes today

Re: [Dems2008] Re: Email Evan Bayh NOW!!!

[Dems2008] The Biofuels Scam, Food Shortages and the Coming Collapse of the Human Population

The Biofuels Scam, Food Shortages and the Coming Collapse of the Human Population

Most biofuel efforts are a sham

You can have fuel or food, but not both

Prepare for mass global starvation

The carrying capacity of planet Earth has reached its apex

Nature needs to be granted legal standing

Re: [Dems2008] Sovereign immunity on trial

Re: [Dems2008] Re:Hillary: The Low Road to Victory