women who have been elected governors and senators in states with a
strong number of evangelicals, such as Kansas, Texas, Missouri,
Louisiana, Arkansas, and North Carolina.
Aaron
--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "worldpeacesoon" <berts420@...> wrote:
>
> Another good point, we may see a backlash from racists, but
doubtful. Apathy is more
> likely the consequence of a multiracial candidate and a white
candidate.
>
> Hillary and Bill are more likely to galvanize and unite the
conservative republican
> base(which includes many racists and sexist. Many of the mega-church
conservative evangelicals still teach that women are subservient to
men and many of the women accept
> this. A good reading is 'The American fascist, The Christian right
and the war on America'
> by Chris hedges) and bring the republican voters out in droves.
Unfortunately, they may
> also lose some of the support that obama has garnered with
independents and moderate
> republicans.
>
> Your point is heard, but don't discount that there are a lot of
sexist people and a lot of
> republican women who despise hillary.
>
> I've said before that I will support Obama or hillary if they are
the nominee. I just don't buy
> into the theory that racists will be galvanized.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "azober2000" <azober@> wrote:
> >
> > The thing about Hillary (and Bill)is that they've been attacked for so
> > long now and nothing has stuck. We don't know if Obama will be able
> > to keep up with all the attacks, because he's never been in a race
> > this competitive. Personally I think we're long overdue to see a
> > black President, but I fear that nominating Obama will energize the
> > racists to vote against him in massive numbers. If Obama is our
> > nominee, then I'll support him, but I'm very worried about what will
> > happen if he gets the nomination.
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> >
> > --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "worldpeacesoon" <berts420@> wrote:
> > >
> > > A valid point, I'm sure fox news will be talking about it more. I am
> > also sure that NPR,
> > > CNN, The New York Times, NBC, ABC, CBS, etc.....will all be running
> > stories why it isn't
> > > true and calling the repubs on this one. The swift boaters were not
> > even moderately successful.
> > >
> > > As for independent and moderate voters, if they are voting for Obama
> > now, they will most
> > > likely vote for him in November. The people that Mr. Romano
> > interviewed don't sound very
> > > moderate or independent and they surely aren't the independents and
> > moderates that have
> > > already voted for Obama despite the rumor that has been floating
> > around since january of
> > > 2007.
> > >
> > > I would also go back to the voter turnout that Mr Romano failed to
> > address. the democrats
> > > are turning out 2 to 1 versus the republicans. The conservative
> > evangelical base does not
> > > support McCain and one of their leaders(dobson), has said he can't
> > morally vote for
> > > McCain. That could result in many people staying at home or voting
> > for a third party
> > > candidate(if one should enter).
> > >
> > > I would imagine that the republicans dirt on both candidates. I
> > would also bet that they
> > > have more factual information on Hillary(and Bill). The Clintons
> > have not released a lot of paperwork,memos, and other information to
> > the public yet. george Bush is our president,
> > > you don't think he( or Rove and Cheyney) have not looked at those
> > papers. i guarantee you
> > > they have looked at these documents, and maybe even made copies.
> > They will also bring
> > > up Bill's business relationship with the Radical Dubai Sheik.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, Mr Romano article has some valid points that need to
> > be thought about,
> > > but he doesn't give you all the information to reach a reasonable
> > conclusion.
> > >
> > > --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "azober2000" <azober@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It doesn't matter whether it's true or not. If it's pushed, Obama
> > > > will lose independent and moderate voters out of fear, sadly. And
> > > > true it's not being pushed much now, but Obama doesn't have the
> > > > nomination yet. If he gets it, I assure you we'll be hearing
a lot
> > > > more of it. The Republicans didn't swift boat John Kerry
until he got
> > > > the nomination.
> > > >
> > > > Aaron
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "worldpeacesoon" <berts420@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > And finally, these rumors have been debunked, i think the
only one
> > > > pushing this muslim
> > > > > thing anymore is Fox news and this Romano guy and azober2000.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "azober2000" <azober@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/02/11/obama-s-
> > > > > pesky-muslim-problem.aspx
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can the Muslim Smear Hurt Obama?*
> > > > > > Andrew Romano
> > > > > > Barack Obama had a good weekend. For starters, he opened a
> > lead of 84
> > > > > > pledged delegates and 200,000 popular votes by crushing
Hillary
> > > > > > Clinton in five** straight contests--Nebraska (68-32 percent),
> > > > > > Louisiana (57-36), Washington State (68-31)** and the U.S.
Virgin
> > > > > > Islands (90-8) on Saturday, followed by a surprisingly sizable
> > win in
> > > > > > Maine (59-40) on Sunday. He beat Bill Clinton to win best
spoken
> > > > > > audiobook at yesterday's Grammy Awards. And he had the
pleasure of
> > > > > > watching as Clinton removed campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle
> > (also
> > > > > > chief liaison to Latinos) from her team--a sure sign that
> > staffers and
> > > > > > supporters are worried about Hillary's wobbly bid. The good
> > news will
> > > > > > probably continue for the next ten days; Obama leads by at
> > least 17
> > > > > > points in each of Tuesday's Potomac Primary battles (Virginia,
> > > > > > Maryland and Washington, D.C.), and is expected to win in
liberal,
> > > > > > educated Wisconsin and his birth state of Hawaii a week later.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All of which got me thinking about the general election.
Sure, the
> > > > > > Illinois senator is a long way from clinching the Democratic
> > > > > > nomination. First he has to survive Ohio and Texas on
March 4 and
> > > > > > Pennsylvania on April 22--states that are rich in delegates
> > and far
> > > > > > more favorable to Clinton than February's Obama-friendly
> > face-offs.
> > > > > > Even then, the fight will probably go all the way to the
> > convention in
> > > > > > August (the math isn't rocket science). But if Obama does get
> > the nod,
> > > > > > I'm starting to wonder if he might find it tougher to peel off
> > > > > > Republicans than his rhetoric (and the current polling)
> > > > > > suggests--especially against John McCain. Reading through the
> > comments
> > > > > > on "He's One of Us Now," a story I wrote for this week's
dead-tree
> > > > > > magazine, I was reminded yesterday of a pesky little
problem that
> > > > > > could hurt him next November: the Muslim rumor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Over the past few months, it's become clear that there are
> > some shady
> > > > > > people out there bent on spreading the claim----completely,
> > > > > > inarguably, demonstrably false--that Obama is a "crypto-Muslim
> > > > > > Manchurian candidate." It started with a set of
untraceable viral
> > > > > > emails, which say that "Barack Hussein Obama has joined
the United
> > > > > > Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim
> > background" and
> > > > > > ask "Can a good Muslim become a good American?" (the answer,
> > they add,
> > > > > > is no). And it has continued with trolls like "HolyRoller," a
> > > > > > monomaniacal individual now infecting the "He's One of Us Now"
> > comment
> > > > > > board, where he's busy posing questions like "To all you Obama
> > > > > > supporters: Is he Shiite or Sunni?" and lamenting "how foolish
> > we have
> > > > > > become" now that "a large segment of our population wants one
> > of the
> > > > > > [Islamic] devils to be their President"--despite the fact
that my
> > > > > > article had nothing whatsoever to do with Obama's religious
> > > > > > background. The Obama campaign has been waging a determined,
> > > > > > low-intensity war against the smear since January 2007,
and the
> > > > > > candidate himself has repeatedly weighed in. His typical
response?
> > > > > > "The American people are, I think, smarter than folks give
> > them credit
> > > > > > for."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He's mostly right. If Obama wins the Democratic nomination,
> > he'll have
> > > > > > plenty of time before Election Day to tell voters that he's
> > been "a
> > > > > > member of the same church, the same Christian church, for
> > almost 20
> > > > > > years"--enough, I'm sure, to reach all but the most
willful bigots
> > > > > > (who probably wouldn't vote for him anyway). But what if
> > correcting
> > > > > > the record isn't the problem? After a few months on the
trail, I'm
> > > > > > starting to worry that there are swing voters out there
concerned
> > > > > > about terrorism who won't be willing to "take a risk" on
> > someone who
> > > > > > has ANY links to the Muslim world--as irrelevant as those
> > links may
> > > > > > be. Over the past two months, I've had at least a dozen people
> > respond
> > > > > > to my rote question--What do you think of Barack Obama?--by
> > worrying
> > > > > > aloud about his "Muslim background." I'm always quick to
tell them
> > > > > > that he's not a Muslim, but it rarely makes a difference. Take
> > Vicki
> > > > > > Hercsky, 47, a teacher from Boca Raton, Florida. "Obama, I
> > don't even
> > > > > > know how he got where he is," she told me after a Rudy
> > Giuliani event
> > > > > > late last month. "Why do you say that?" I asked. "He's
> > Muslim," she
> > > > > > replied, matter-of-factly. I stammered. "Well, um, his
father was
> > > > > > raised Muslim but was an agnostic by the time Barack was
born," I
> > > > > > said. "Obama is a Christian." Hercsky wasn't swayed. "Yeah,
> > but he has
> > > > > > it in his blood," she said. "You can't take away what's given
> > to you.
> > > > > > It's given to you for a reason, and that's who you are. That's
> > who he
> > > > > > is." I'm not sure what she meant by "it," or "who he is"--and
> > I'm not
> > > > > > sure I want to know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In a general election battle, the macho, militaristic
McCain would
> > > > > > make a mighty effort to focus voters' attention on national
> > security.
> > > > > > He'd contrast his experience--"I've been involved in every
major
> > > > > > national security issue for the last 20 years, and in some
> > ways the
> > > > > > last 40," he's fond of saying--with Obama's rather light
foreign
> > > > > > policy resume. And he'd deploy the phrase "radical Islamic
> > extremism"
> > > > > > whenever possible. In that kind of contest, Obama doesn't want
> > > > > > moderate Republicans--voters he hopes to add to his
"coalition for
> > > > > > change"--wondering whether he's "an Islamic sympathizer," in
> > > > > > HolyRoller's ignorant formulation, or even listening to Rush
> > Limbaugh
> > > > > > repeat "Hussein" (the senator's middle name) over and over
> > again. It's
> > > > > > not like national-security voters need to believe that
Obama is a
> > > > > > practicing Muslim; they just need to suspect that he's not as
> > strongly
> > > > > > "anti-Muslim" as McCain. I've seen how easy it is to sow those
> > seeds
> > > > > > of doubt--and how tenaciously they blossom. To decide solely
> > on such
> > > > > > irrelevant innuendo would be stupid. But people do stupid
> > things when
> > > > > > they're scared, and after hearing what I've heard on the
> > trail, I'm
> > > > > > not so sure that some of them wouldn't decide that way
regardless.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Changed from "Obama's Pesky 'Muslim' Problem," which was, as
> > several
> > > > > > commenters have pointed out, a misleading headline. I
should've
> > > > > > thought longer and harder about the title instead of posting
> > the first
> > > > > > thing that came to mind. Apologies to all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **Knew I was forgetting something. Thanks to commenter
> > Renata29 for
> > > > > > pointing out my omission.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > UPDATE, 5:15 p.m.: Two things in response to the commenters:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) I'm not working off of Clinton talking points; I'm working
> > off of
> > > > > > my own experience and reporting on the campaign trail,
where I've
> > > > > > spoken to dozens of voters over the past few months--and
where a
> > > > > > surprising number, as I note in the article, brought up
what they
> > > > > > called Obama's "Muslim background" as a source of concern.
> > There's a
> > > > > > big difference between speculating about "hypothetical
Republican
> > > > > > attacks"--which you'll notice I never do--and reporting on
> > > > > > conversations you've had with actual Americans whose views of
> > the race
> > > > > > seem to have been colored by these false, bigoted
whispers. The
> > > > > > problem exists, and ignoring it won't make it go away.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Kenny F writes, "It's not innuendo, it's bigotry.
> > Americans are
> > > > > > queasy now about openly saying that they won't vote for a
black
> > > > > > candidate, so this becames a handy stand-in ("It's in his
blood??"
> > > > > > Yuck). Also, you forget that there is nothing wrong with
a Muslim
> > > > > > candidate, just like there is nothing wrong with an
> > Evangelical one."
> > > > > > He's absolutely right--and trust me, I didn't forget. But if
> > it wasn't
> > > > > > clear from the article, let me make it clear now--there's
nothing
> > > > > > wrong with a Muslim candidate. The problem is, a lot of
Americans
> > > > > > (sadly) disagree--and as long as they think Obama's father's
> > Muslim
> > > > > > childhood somehow makes the Illinois senator suspect--or
even just
> > > > > > less "anti-Jihadi" than McCain--he may have a problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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