[Dems2008] Re: More Good Election News!

What are you guys smoking? Do you really think Tom Jefferson and the
boys were thinking about "gay rights?" There is NOTHING in the
constitution about protecting sexual orientation. If you think there
should be, I tell you the same thing I tell the people that think the
constitution should be made to apply to the unborn: convence enough
people to get it in there! Stop trying to argue that it IS there and
courts should mandate your views just because you think it is the
right thing to do. This is what democracy is all about.

--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "citation502" <citation502@...>
wrote:
>
>
> ras, I read the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause and due
process
> clause to prohibit a state from denying equality in marital rights
> same-gender couples. Others may (and do) disagree with that.
>
> But under my interpretation of the 14th Amdt, as it applies to
> discrimination between genders and orientations that cannot be
justified
> by a legitimate state interest, the 9th Amdt is trumped. The 9th
> addresses powers that have not been bestowed on the federal
government.
> The 14th Amdt addresses proscriptions we have placed on the reach of
> state action.
>
> Yes, indeed, I now see that you and I have radically different
> perspectives on what I think are fundamental rights, which may be
what
> you were alluding to last night.
>
> p.s. if it relevant to you, the 5th Amdt due process guarantee
(the
> one that operates on the federal govt) has likewise been
interpreted to
> incorporate a guarantee of equal protection.
>
> p.p.s. I recognize fully that states define the meaning of
property in
> most instances, and that states define what constitutes marriage.
But
> in my view there is no difference in kind between (i) the fact that
> under the U.S. constitution states may not proscribe inter-racial
> marriages and (ii) my interpretation of the 14th Amdt that would
> prohibit states from proscribing same-gender marriages. In both
cases,
> the states cannot articulate a legitimate state interest (and a
> religious view does not count in this regard) in prohibiting to two
gays
> a union that is permitted to two heterosexuals.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "raschueller" <raschueller@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "citation502" citation502@ wrote:
> > >
> > > ras, if you read the Ninth Amendment you will quickly see that
the
> > > Fourteenth amendment trumps the 9th where it addresses a
question
> > >
> >
> > All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject
to
> > the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and
of the
> > State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law
> > which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of
the
> > United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life,
> > liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any
> > person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
> >
> >
> > Operative word there is STATE. It says nothing about the federal
> > government. And the Supreme court is the final arbiter as to
whether
> > state law is constitutional or not.
> >
> > The supreme court has pulled the 9th amendment, "The enumeration
in
> > the Constitution, of certain rights shall not be construed to
deny or
> > disparage others retained by the people." to link those rights to
> > federal law.
> >
> > But to be honest looking at the legal issue... where the 14th has
been
> > used to support the concept of "right to privacy" or more in vogue
> > "liberty" has been fairly restricted lately. Without getting into
> > court specifics, there has been a strong move strict
interpretation
> > and the issue in the courts continues to be doomed to fail.
> >
> > At any rate the point is: this is NOT an issue the candidate
needs to
> > talk about because they will get TRASHED. Its a looser. This is
about
> > what wins elections, and this issue is a giant can of worms.
> >
>

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