Let's face it... A> It gets it done with. B> I'm sympathetic to the argument regarding Florida's legislature and C> if they had a revote, Obama might fare worse.
the 1/2 vote deal gives Clinton, I think a 18-19 delegate advantage... considering we just picked up 9 in Iowa... not too bad of a deal.
Slainte,
Rob Harrington
----- Original Message ----
From: worldpeacesoon <berts420@yahoo.com>
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 10:10:57 PM
Subject: [Dems2008] Re: The Florida Myth is perpetuated right here by pseudo-Democrats, soon to be R
here's an article i found, but it isn't very clear what rule he is talking about.
Florida Suggests Half Vote Solution To Settle Democratic Party Squabble
Posted March 16, 2008 | 12:28 PM (EST)
Read More: 2008 Election, Barack Obama, Barack Obama Florida, Barack Obama Florida
Appealing for Solomon-like decision making, Florida's Democratic leadership is asking
that 50 percent of its elected delegate strength be seated as a means of breaking the
impasse and saving millions of dollars in a re-vote which has little support from both the
Clinton and Obama campaigns.
The newest face-saving proposal was sent by "over-the-weekend mail" to the Democratic
National Committee as a way out of the dilemma facing the party caused when Florida
held a rules-breaking election one week ahead of schedule.
Indications are that Sen. Hillary Clinton - who won the Jan. 29 Florida primary - would
agree to the "50 percent proposal", but spokespersons for Sen. Barack Obama still are
asking for a caucus.
"When a 'Violation of Timing' occurs by a state party, the number of pledged delegates
shall be reduced by fifty percent (50%)," veteran DNC member Jon Ausman of Tallahassee
reminded the party's Credential Committee in an appeal by mail. He explained Florida
could still get 210 delegates but each would only get l/2 of a vote. He also asked that
Florida's elected officials - superdelegates - be seated.
"I am respectfully requesting that these two challenges and/or appeals regarding Florida's
delegates and alternates be scheduled before the next Rules and Bylaws Committee
meeting for consideration and review," Ausman said, apparently with the backing of a
number of Sunshine State officials. A spokesman for Sen. Bill Nelson, the state's leading
Democrat called the 1⁄2 vote suggestion..."an idea...not necessarily a proposal."
The documents were sent by Ausman to the co-Chairman of the Credentials Committee
James Roosevelt, with e-mails explaining the appeal being forwarded to Democratic
leaders all over the State. Ausman and Janee Murphy, Secretary of theFlorida Democratic
Party, said they expected to go before the Committee at its meeting on April 14.
The Credentials Committee has about 200 members and has the power to decide who is
seated at the party's nominating convention Aug. 25-28 in Denver.
The half-vote proposal came as the chance for a new primary in Florida by June 3 received
increased resistance.
Michigan has a similar problem (it, too, had an earlier than mandated primary), but a re-
vote there does not face the same logistical problems as in Florida, including the shift-
over in new, as yet untested voting equipment, and the question of who would shell out
the estimated 10 to 12 million dollars estimated as the cost of another Florida election.
There is also a reminder that only Clinton was on the Michigan ballot while Floridians had
a choice of all Democratic candidates. Florida's Republican legislative majority says no
state funds can be used for a re-vote and even Democrats oppose another costly election.
If the DNC and the candidates would agree to this newest Florida proposal Clinton would
get an edge of about 19 first-ballot committed delegates, based on her 17 percent victory
in the Jan. 29 primary. There are also 25 Florida superdelegates, out of some 800 party
insiders nationally, who get to vote.
There is general agreement that this would have little or no effect on the current delegate
count nationally. The latest delegate count is believed to be 1,603 for Obama and 1,497
for Clinton, with Pennsylvania (April 22) and North Carolina (May 6) looming as the next
big prizes.
Sen. Nelson - who earlier had sought a complete new election - gave a modest nod to the
plan. Florida's Democratic congressional delegation - nine in all - who are unanimously
opposed to a new election - are still considering the newest proposal.
Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, a Clinton supporter, indicated if both Democratic
potential nominees agreed, she believed the proposal could be accepted.
But some Obama backers says the solution seems to weigh too heavily on the side of Sen.
Clinton. Kurt Wager, an Obama fundraiser in Miami, was quoted in the Sun-Sentinel in
Fort Lauderdale as saying cutting the Florida delegation strength in half was "unlikely."
According to the pundits Obama himself has not committed to a solution - but world
prefer a caucus to end the stalemate. Obama supporters earlier indicated they might also
agree to an even split of Florida's delegates.
"It is important to remember that the Democratic nominating process does not end until
June 10 when other states will be voting," says Karen Thurman, the state party chief who
also is expected to go before the Credentials Committee to discuss the l/2 vote per
delegate "solution." "We continue to move ahead with preparations for a coordinated
general election campaign."
Florida's delegation battle continues to grab headlines daily. Television newscasts locally
and on cable and newspapers give the subject mammoth coverage. "Mail Vote Plan Was
Doomed" said the Sun-Sentinel, referring to a possible vote-by-mail scheme, which
opponents said left open the "possibility of fraud. The mail-in vote was one of several
ideas being floated, but got lukewarm or negative reception.
Florida political junkies argue that the DNC punishment - not seating any Florida
delegates - was too harsh and counter-productive, and now neither party - state officials
nor the DNC -want to bend and show weakness. They say this merely gives Republicans a
strategic issue in the general election. But, they added, the new proposal might give the
DNC a face-saving opportunity, still allowing Florida a voice at the convention, and
salvaging the state's general election prospects in November.
The GOP, they say, is using the Democratic infighting as a means of making the opposition
party look ridiculous. Florida is seen as an electoral battleground in November that can go
either way. Democratic activists remind supporters that it was only a handful of ballots
that cost Al Gore Florida's electoral votes and the loss the presidency eight years ago.
More than one Democrat has noticed the DNC's "obvious" difference in the treatment of
Michigan and Florida, citing the party's convention web page now listing a convention
hotel site (along with 48 other States) for Michigan - but, none for Florida. "Not very
smart," says Dean Trantelis, who was elected an alternate delegate in the March 1 caucus
based on the January primary results. "Just another example of the bungling going on."--
In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Rob Harrington <Eamon1916@...> wrote:
>
> The rules were voted upon by the DNC in general...
>
> And I'd think if this rule did exist we'd have heard about it before now from someone
other than Ed on a yahoo email group...
>
> Slainte,
> Rob Harrington
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: worldpeacesoon <berts420@...>
> To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:21:53 PM
> Subject: [Dems2008] Re: The Florida Myth is perpetuated right here by pseudo-
Democrats, soon to be R
>
> Ed- do you have a link to this rule? i haven't been able to find one. Remember, a whole
> host of individuals voted for these rules, not just dean. The hillary camp is doing a great
> job of casting dean as this, shall i say it, monster.
>
> I would also ask if DNC rules supercede the new rules or is it vice versa. Quite possible,
> DNC rules may allow for new rules to be passed and supercede the old rules. Any idea
Ed
> or Ci or Rob?
>
>
> --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, Edward Hochman <eah01@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ras. Regarding the Florida Michigan mess, I have gotten a communiquette from
Jon
> Ausman, DNC member from the southeast district that the DNC has a rule that if a state
> shall hold a primary earlier than what is permitted the punishment is to reduce the
> delegation to half its normal allotment. Howard Dean is in direct violation of DNC rules
in
> ignoring that rule in their bylaws and a case will be made on this.
> >
> > There have been a number of speculations why Fl was given this harsh treatment.
One
> of them is that due to some mathematical formula and that concept escapes me on how
> this is done, if the state delegation is halved, Hillary benefits in that she gets more
> delegates. I don't know about that but whatever the effect, Howard Dean needs to show
> the leadership to enforce his own rules as layed out in his own bylaws of the DNC.
> >
> > ED
> >
> >
> > To: Dems2008@: raschueller@: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:03:09 +0000Subject:
> [Dems2008] Re: The Florida Myth is perpetuated right here by pseudo-Democrats, soon
to
> be R
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > \> Let me make this clear. Floridians and Michigan voters are allowedto vote in the
> general > election and the democratic nominee is allowed to campaign for thegeneral in
> both > states. To suggest that 2.6 million people are going to sit out thegeneral election
is
> > absurd. > > As i said, we create rules to elect a nominee. When those rules areset in
> place, it is the > state party who is responsible for complying.Simple question. Does this
> mess help us in Florida or hurt us?
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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