taking church literature and reducing it down to snippets. Statements
left with no contextual information are subject to misinterpretation,
and ridicule. The fact is there has been a long standing tension
between the Jewish community and blacks. In no small part this tension
comes from Isreals close ties to South Africa. Zionism is pretty
widely looked down upon in the Black American Activist community.
Ras,
I feel a deja vu here since I think I wrote to you before about what zionism means to me and Jews in general although not all jews believe in it. by the way Israel is Israel not Isreal. anyways, we can have philosophical discussions but that can come in personal emails on this as we would be flooding this forum beyond the political sphere and make an email disaster upon an already emailed burdened club. How many emails are sent here anyways? to simplify the matter, zionism is a belief in a jewish state with the idea that this is a country that Jews can come to without prejudice, without any hampering from the state to practice their faith and to be free. From the earliest of times, jews and numerous other groups were victims of prejudice from the majorities in other nations. There is still a prejudice here but not so open as in other nations. But there are situations where we are reminded of our differences. But many and myself included chose
to ignore it for the most part.
Obvious not all opposition is antisemetic. there are jews opposed to zionism and a number of organized groups disagreed with the formation of Israel itself. But what is done is done.
As far as Wright is concerned, I won't make that blanket statement. However, there is a tendency for many people to blame Jews for almost everything and so one should understand why he might be called antisemetic. I don't know him. I am going to find out more about him soon so I can form an opinion. But just to say, that people who have been the victims of prejudice can be very sensitive to other people's thoughts and actions and misinterpretations are easy. Maybe we should take a step back once in a while take a deep breath and reflect once in a while.
ed
by the way, go to temple, raz. the experience can be enjoyable and intellectually challenging. Rabbi's can be most entertaining.
So
if you take the position Jews and israel are synonymous and all
opposition to Zionism is antisemitism then Wright is antisemitic. Of
course ironically that makes me hate 1/4 of myself.(my grandmother was
Jewish) So much for going to Temple...
----- Original Message ----
From: raschueller <raschueller@yahoo.com>
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:23:20 AM
Subject: [Dems2008] Re: *? Wright : a step by step analysis of the church pamphlet
Sorry about the misfire.
I assume you are not questioning the part on the left. So lets address
the part on the right. Since you wanted cites they are provided.I did
a full survey of each point made and found four were true three false.
One of the falses was patently a lie in my opinion. By patently I mean
without ANY validity and completely made up.
The one thing I would like to say is that I have a real concern about
taking church literature and reducing it down to snippets. Statements
left with no contextual information are subject to misinterpretation,
and ridicule. The fact is there has been a long standing tension
between the Jewish community and blacks. In no small part this tension
comes from Isreals close ties to South Africa. Zionism is pretty
widely looked down upon in the Black American Activist community. So
if you take the position Jews and israel are synonymous and all
opposition to Zionism is antisemitism then Wright is antisemitic. Of
course ironically that makes me hate 1/4 of myself.(my grandmother was
Jewish) So much for going to Temple...
Point 1.
Isreal was racists South Africa's closest ally.
True.
During apartheid Israel was South Africa's on real ally, although
someone being technical could deny this and say they were not
officially allied the fact remains the had very close ties, including
those of a strategic nature.
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00714FF3E5C0C778DDDAB0994D9484D81
Point 2.
In fact South Africa allowed isreal to test nukes off its shores.
Flase.
Israel and South Africa did work on a ballistic missile project
together. And Israel probably used data gathered from these tests. So
test its nuclear weapons is obviously a gross oversimplification. But
the kernel of truth exists: Israel and South Africa worked together
on strategic weapons designed to carry nuclear warheads.
http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/SAfrica/Missile/index.html#fn3
"Some analysis went so far as to speculate that the South African
program was merely a front to provide Israel with a location to test
its missiles over a longer range than would be possible over the
Mediterranean Sea. This contention would seem to be confirmed by the
fact that South Africa never integrated its secret nuclear weapons
program with its ballistic missile program."
Sub notes
"South African Missile Test," Jane's Defence Weekly, 15 July 1989, p.
59; Michael R. Gordon, "US Sees Israeli Help in Pretoria's Missile
Work," New York Times, 27 October 1989
Point 3 Ethnic Bomb?
False. make that 99.99999% False but don't laugh. This is a long
surviving "global" myth that was in some circles WIDELY accepted as
true. By widely I don't mean just the crazy people or extremists.
While I don't think any rational person things this makes any sense at
all on another level I think there is a tiny part that is true. I
could imagine some weird dark basement where a guy writes a general
article on the potential of "ethnic weapons" and it turns into this.
The concept is emotionally charged, but at some point in those dark
rooms where these idiots design weaponary someone has undoubtably
explored the theory.
This is from an article exposing the ethnobomb.
Israel is reportedly developing a biological weapon that would harm
Arabs while leaving Jews unaffected, according to a report in London's
Sunday Times.
The report, citing Israeli military and western intelligence sources,
says that scientists are trying to identify distinctive genes carried
by Arabs to create a genetically modified bacterium or virus.
The "ethno-bomb" is reportedly Israel's response to the threat that
Iraq may be just weeks away from completing its own biological weapons.
The "ethno-bomb" program is based at Israel's Nes Tziyona research
facility. Scientists are trying to use viruses and bacteria to alter
DNA inside living cells and attack only those cells bearing Arabic genes.
This is an article debunking it.
The notion that the Jewish state is developing a bomb targeting people
by "race" outraged some members of Israel's parliament. But ethics and
morality aside, American experts are skeptical that such a weapon is
possible today.
"I think it's nonsense," said Bill Richardson, a deputy assistant
secretary of defense responsible for chemical and biological warfare
programs in the Reagan and Bush administrations. Even if an
"ethno-bomb" were developed in a petri dish, he said, "there's a long
leap from having a mechanism to having an environmental viability, a
weapon, or vector, or means of dissemination," he said.
Point 4 Arabs have always supported the dismantling of this racist
government.
True.
The arab bloc was among the first and remained to be the most vocal
opponents of Apartheid. Back before Mandela was cool no major leader
would meet with him. The arabs did. So the comparison is valid. Israel
was South Africa's strategic partner (allie makes it sound like they
have a treaty making it official) up to the last day of apartheid.
For instance:
Mandela thanked Egypt for its support during the apartheid years of
white-minority rule in South Africa.
In his brief speech, Mandela referred to his first visit to Egypt in
1962 when he was still a freedom fighter. He also praised the late
President Gamal Abdel Nasser, whom he met then, adding that Nasser was
a great source of inspiration for him at the time.
Egypt was also the first country Mandela visited after his release
from prison in 1990.
( Side message for Isabella: It is easy to forget that South Africa
Israel tie isn't it Isabella...I bet you bristled when you read
Mandela praising Nasser. I keep telling you opposing Zionism is not
the same as being antisemitic.)
Point 5. Probably.. but.
Sudan granted Mandela a passport so he could travel
In 1962 Mandela took an "illegal" trip around other countries. He
along with tens of thousands of others were not allowed the basic
freedom of travel (he was even tried for LEAVING the country without a
passport upon his return). He did visit Sudan and several other
countries and lavished praise on each one... but he did not visit
Sudan either first or last and I don't know of any evidence they
provided him a passport so he could travel. They may have sent one to
him symbolically at the trial, but the origins and veracity are a mystery.
Point 6. Libya helped liberation movements.
True.
They Helped the ANC.
Point 7 Support of the ANC caused it to be labled.
False.
It ties the sentence nicely but it is liscnence with facts. It was
Libya's ties to the Soviet union that made it an enemy state. Then of
course Libya was implicated in the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103
over Lockerbie, Scotland, UN sanctions were imposed in 1992. UN
Security Council resolutions (UNSCRs) passed in 1992 and 1993 obliged
Libya to fulfill requirements related to the Pan Am 103 bombing before
sanctions could be lifted. Qadhafi initially refused to comply with
these requirements, leading to Libya's political and economic
isolation for most of the 1990s.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5425.htm
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