Objectively -- and remember I'm a lifelong (over 60 yrs) dyed-in-the-blue liberal progressive Democrat who is politically active -- some things HAVE stuck:
- we've only had two presidents impeached, and Bill was one of them; that's a biggie
- the entire country has been outraged by his midnight pardons (Marc Rich, etc.)
- he was disbarred for having perjured himself
- he won't again soon compare Barack to Jessie Jackson in SC
- no one takes seriously his assertion a month ago that he opposed the war in Iraq "from the beginning."
- In sum, while I know the party line in my party is that he is the most popular Democrat since JFK, his credibility is called into serious question by probably a majority of Americans; his negatives are pretty high
--- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "azober2000" <azober@...> wrote:
>
> The thing about Hillary (and Bill)is that they've been attacked for so
> long now and nothing has stuck. We don't know if Obama will be able
> to keep up with all the attacks, because he's never been in a race
> this competitive. Personally I think we're long overdue to see a
> black President, but I fear that nominating Obama will energize the
> racists to vote against him in massive numbers. If Obama is our
> nominee, then I'll support him, but I'm very worried about what will
> happen if he gets the nomination.
>
> Aaron
>
>
> --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "worldpeacesoon" berts420@ wrote:
> >
> > A valid point, I'm sure fox news will be talking about it more. I am
> also sure that NPR,
> > CNN, The New York Times, NBC, ABC, CBS, etc.....will all be running
> stories why it isn't
> > true and calling the repubs on this one. The swift boaters were not
> even moderately successful.
> >
> > As for independent and moderate voters, if they are voting for Obama
> now, they will most
> > likely vote for him in November. The people that Mr. Romano
> interviewed don't sound very
> > moderate or independent and they surely aren't the independents and
> moderates that have
> > already voted for Obama despite the rumor that has been floating
> around since january of
> > 2007.
> >
> > I would also go back to the voter turnout that Mr Romano failed to
> address. the democrats
> > are turning out 2 to 1 versus the republicans. The conservative
> evangelical base does not
> > support McCain and one of their leaders(dobson), has said he can't
> morally vote for
> > McCain. That could result in many people staying at home or voting
> for a third party
> > candidate(if one should enter).
> >
> > I would imagine that the republicans dirt on both candidates. I
> would also bet that they
> > have more factual information on Hillary(and Bill). The Clintons
> have not released a lot of paperwork,memos, and other information to
> the public yet. george Bush is our president,
> > you don't think he( or Rove and Cheyney) have not looked at those
> papers. i guarantee you
> > they have looked at these documents, and maybe even made copies.
> They will also bring
> > up Bill's business relationship with the Radical Dubai Sheik.
> >
> > In my opinion, Mr Romano article has some valid points that need to
> be thought about,
> > but he doesn't give you all the information to reach a reasonable
> conclusion.
> >
> > --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "azober2000" <azober@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It doesn't matter whether it's true or not. If it's pushed, Obama
> > > will lose independent and moderate voters out of fear, sadly. And
> > > true it's not being pushed much now, but Obama doesn't have the
> > > nomination yet. If he gets it, I assure you we'll be hearing a lot
> > > more of it. The Republicans didn't swift boat John Kerry until he got
> > > the nomination.
> > >
> > > Aaron
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "worldpeacesoon" <berts420@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > And finally, these rumors have been debunked, i think the only one
> > > pushing this muslim
> > > > thing anymore is Fox news and this Romano guy and azober2000.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - In Dems2008@yahoogroups.com, "azober2000" <azober@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/02/11/obama-s-
> > > > pesky-muslim-problem.aspx
> > > > >
> > > > > Can the Muslim Smear Hurt Obama?*
> > > > > Andrew Romano
> > > > > Barack Obama had a good weekend. For starters, he opened a
> lead of 84
> > > > > pledged delegates and 200,000 popular votes by crushing Hillary
> > > > > Clinton in five** straight contests--Nebraska (68-32 percent),
> > > > > Louisiana (57-36), Washington State (68-31)** and the U.S. Virgin
> > > > > Islands (90-8) on Saturday, followed by a surprisingly sizable
> win in
> > > > > Maine (59-40) on Sunday. He beat Bill Clinton to win best spoken
> > > > > audiobook at yesterday's Grammy Awards. And he had the pleasure of
> > > > > watching as Clinton removed campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle
> (also
> > > > > chief liaison to Latinos) from her team--a sure sign that
> staffers and
> > > > > supporters are worried about Hillary's wobbly bid. The good
> news will
> > > > > probably continue for the next ten days; Obama leads by at
> least 17
> > > > > points in each of Tuesday's Potomac Primary battles (Virginia,
> > > > > Maryland and Washington, D.C.), and is expected to win in liberal,
> > > > > educated Wisconsin and his birth state of Hawaii a week later.
> > > > >
> > > > > All of which got me thinking about the general election. Sure, the
> > > > > Illinois senator is a long way from clinching the Democratic
> > > > > nomination. First he has to survive Ohio and Texas on March 4 and
> > > > > Pennsylvania on April 22--states that are rich in delegates
> and far
> > > > > more favorable to Clinton than February's Obama-friendly
> face-offs.
> > > > > Even then, the fight will probably go all the way to the
> convention in
> > > > > August (the math isn't rocket science). But if Obama does get
> the nod,
> > > > > I'm starting to wonder if he might find it tougher to peel off
> > > > > Republicans than his rhetoric (and the current polling)
> > > > > suggests--especially against John McCain. Reading through the
> comments
> > > > > on "He's One of Us Now," a story I wrote for this week's dead-tree
> > > > > magazine, I was reminded yesterday of a pesky little problem that
> > > > > could hurt him next November: the Muslim rumor.
> > > > >
> > > > > Over the past few months, it's become clear that there are
> some shady
> > > > > people out there bent on spreading the claim----completely,
> > > > > inarguably, demonstrably false--that Obama is a "crypto-Muslim
> > > > > Manchurian candidate." It started with a set of untraceable viral
> > > > > emails, which say that "Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United
> > > > > Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim
> background" and
> > > > > ask "Can a good Muslim become a good American?" (the answer,
> they add,
> > > > > is no). And it has continued with trolls like "HolyRoller," a
> > > > > monomaniacal individual now infecting the "He's One of Us Now"
> comment
> > > > > board, where he's busy posing questions like "To all you Obama
> > > > > supporters: Is he Shiite or Sunni?" and lamenting "how foolish
> we have
> > > > > become" now that "a large segment of our population wants one
> of the
> > > > > [Islamic] devils to be their President"--despite the fact that my
> > > > > article had nothing whatsoever to do with Obama's religious
> > > > > background. The Obama campaign has been waging a determined,
> > > > > low-intensity war against the smear since January 2007, and the
> > > > > candidate himself has repeatedly weighed in. His typical response?
> > > > > "The American people are, I think, smarter than folks give
> them credit
> > > > > for."
> > > > >
> > > > > He's mostly right. If Obama wins the Democratic nomination,
> he'll have
> > > > > plenty of time before Election Day to tell voters that he's
> been "a
> > > > > member of the same church, the same Christian church, for
> almost 20
> > > > > years"--enough, I'm sure, to reach all but the most willful bigots
> > > > > (who probably wouldn't vote for him anyway). But what if
> correcting
> > > > > the record isn't the problem? After a few months on the trail, I'm
> > > > > starting to worry that there are swing voters out there concerned
> > > > > about terrorism who won't be willing to "take a risk" on
> someone who
> > > > > has ANY links to the Muslim world--as irrelevant as those
> links may
> > > > > be. Over the past two months, I've had at least a dozen people
> respond
> > > > > to my rote question--What do you think of Barack Obama?--by
> worrying
> > > > > aloud about his "Muslim background." I'm always quick to tell them
> > > > > that he's not a Muslim, but it rarely makes a difference. Take
> Vicki
> > > > > Hercsky, 47, a teacher from Boca Raton, Florida. "Obama, I
> don't even
> > > > > know how he got where he is," she told me after a Rudy
> Giuliani event
> > > > > late last month. "Why do you say that?" I asked. "He's
> Muslim," she
> > > > > replied, matter-of-factly. I stammered. "Well, um, his father was
> > > > > raised Muslim but was an agnostic by the time Barack was born," I
> > > > > said. "Obama is a Christian." Hercsky wasn't swayed. "Yeah,
> but he has
> > > > > it in his blood," she said. "You can't take away what's given
> to you.
> > > > > It's given to you for a reason, and that's who you are. That's
> who he
> > > > > is." I'm not sure what she meant by "it," or "who he is"--and
> I'm not
> > > > > sure I want to know.
> > > > >
> > > > > In a general election battle, the macho, militaristic McCain would
> > > > > make a mighty effort to focus voters' attention on national
> security.
> > > > > He'd contrast his experience--"I've been involved in every major
> > > > > national security issue for the last 20 years, and in some
> ways the
> > > > > last 40," he's fond of saying--with Obama's rather light foreign
> > > > > policy resume. And he'd deploy the phrase "radical Islamic
> extremism"
> > > > > whenever possible. In that kind of contest, Obama doesn't want
> > > > > moderate Republicans--voters he hopes to add to his "coalition for
> > > > > change"--wondering whether he's "an Islamic sympathizer," in
> > > > > HolyRoller's ignorant formulation, or even listening to Rush
> Limbaugh
> > > > > repeat "Hussein" (the senator's middle name) over and over
> again. It's
> > > > > not like national-security voters need to believe that Obama is a
> > > > > practicing Muslim; they just need to suspect that he's not as
> strongly
> > > > > "anti-Muslim" as McCain. I've seen how easy it is to sow those
> seeds
> > > > > of doubt--and how tenaciously they blossom. To decide solely
> on such
> > > > > irrelevant innuendo would be stupid. But people do stupid
> things when
> > > > > they're scared, and after hearing what I've heard on the
> trail, I'm
> > > > > not so sure that some of them wouldn't decide that way regardless.
> > > > >
> > > > > *Changed from "Obama's Pesky 'Muslim' Problem," which was, as
> several
> > > > > commenters have pointed out, a misleading headline. I should've
> > > > > thought longer and harder about the title instead of posting
> the first
> > > > > thing that came to mind. Apologies to all.
> > > > >
> > > > > **Knew I was forgetting something. Thanks to commenter
> Renata29 for
> > > > > pointing out my omission.
> > > > >
> > > > > UPDATE, 5:15 p.m.: Two things in response to the commenters:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) I'm not working off of Clinton talking points; I'm working
> off of
> > > > > my own experience and reporting on the campaign trail, where I've
> > > > > spoken to dozens of voters over the past few months--and where a
> > > > > surprising number, as I note in the article, brought up what they
> > > > > called Obama's "Muslim background" as a source of concern.
> There's a
> > > > > big difference between speculating about "hypothetical Republican
> > > > > attacks"--which you'll notice I never do--and reporting on
> > > > > conversations you've had with actual Americans whose views of
> the race
> > > > > seem to have been colored by these false, bigoted whispers. The
> > > > > problem exists, and ignoring it won't make it go away.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Kenny F writes, "It's not innuendo, it's bigotry.
> Americans are
> > > > > queasy now about openly saying that they won't vote for a black
> > > > > candidate, so this becames a handy stand-in ("It's in his blood??"
> > > > > Yuck). Also, you forget that there is nothing wrong with a Muslim
> > > > > candidate, just like there is nothing wrong with an
> Evangelical one."
> > > > > He's absolutely right--and trust me, I didn't forget. But if
> it wasn't
> > > > > clear from the article, let me make it clear now--there's nothing
> > > > > wrong with a Muslim candidate. The problem is, a lot of Americans
> > > > > (sadly) disagree--and as long as they think Obama's father's
> Muslim
> > > > > childhood somehow makes the Illinois senator suspect--or even just
> > > > > less "anti-Jihadi" than McCain--he may have a problem.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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