No, I wouldn't vote for McCain. I am a Democrat although I if I could in the state of Florida I would be independent. But in Florida, with its closed primary system, if you aren't a member of one party or the other, the primary is meaningless as you can't register any preference. I prefer a system like Wisconsin's open primary where you can listen towards who presents his program better to you regardless of party. But if I were to be a Republican,, I would certainly look between Ron Paul and John McCain as more traditional republicans, not idealogues or evangelists but to me they would be the closest representative of the Republican Party that I could assign any credibility.
With respect to this club, this club is a microcosm of what is going on in the society that does not like the Bush Regime and its excesses, its Joe McCarthy scare tactics, its representation of an economic elite. And the mood of democrats running in primaries locally against each other has erupted in disharmony that have even been worse than the divisions between the Clinton and Obama camps. I have no problems with contests between two or more candidates for an office in the democratic party but I have seen where the endgame is lost in the final election because of the animosity between the democratic opponents in the race. The personal urge to win is stronger than the idea that we need to change the directions our local, state and national government are going in. Iraq, healthcare, social security, education, housing, etc take second place and yet I believe these issues should be our number one priority. The people to push these into law are important but it is more important that it be a democratic representative as they tend to work on our behalf. The lines of division in this club are there already and I personally feel that there is more a need to impress the two candidates with the positions we want them to represent....yes to represent. They are our representatives we employ them so we need to express to them what we expect of them regardless of what ideas are their own. Naturally, we would wish them to agree with our points regarding those issues we consider important but this is not always the case. They both agree on the need for a better health care plan. but is it a single payer system we want or a plan like hillary's , what do we want and do the representatives agree with the principles of such plan?
Instead, we have gone through haranging about the candidates trying to convince the Hillary People they are losers and vise versa. All this does is cause further rifts and doesn't address why we elect those representatives to the White House. We divide ourselves and in the time where the Republican Party is so split ideologically and over matters of religion (which they should not even touch in this multi-cultural nation) that it will take a lot of mending for them to unite behind their frontrunner, we lose our potential advantages. We are all Democrats and whichever candidates wins, I will support that person as if I had initially supported that person because it is the Democratic Party that will address the issues and represent us more. Sorry to get this so serious but I really don't like the personal bickering that goes on here. It is counterproductive. I do prefer listening to Duck Soup, A Night at the Opera, even an episode of Denny Crane schticks on Boston Legal. HHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.........I haven't listened to those movies in some time. I would ask you to join me, Lisa, except that we are probably in two different states. It is cool down here now, I think it is in the low 70's.
thank you for your letter,
Ed
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
From: lisapallez@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:11:47 -0800
Subject: RE: [Dems2008] Re: Obama ad fires back at Hillary... See it here.
LOL, Ed, thank you! Ironic wit must live! Honk Honk! That speech would resonate with all ; )! Someone might pick that up as a campaign slogan yet ; )!__._,_.___
Or has the Cold (but warming at an alarming rate) Duck Party already cornered that one?
You know who I supported originally and I really do see a Hobson's choice now, but I'll always vote and McCain certainly won't make me swing.
The emotions of all are understandably a bit too raw sometimes and we haven't always dealt with it really well. We're all human, after all, but civility is always something to strive for. I think that most here are sincere, knowledgeable, wise, intelligent and passionate people. Let us further unite. And yes, I do mean at the Congressional and Senatorial levels, too. We can go further.
Please don't leave the group, Ed, and please let's encourage an environment where (y)our buddies here are ready to come back. I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses Stan, and certain stellar others, but this group was kinda attacked (biting my tongue; don't want to name names) in the past month or so and we've got to take it back (way sassy for me to say, I know; but I've also learned that lurkers can learn a lot). But if we can't do it here . . . Honk Honk . . . I'd take that as a great alarm call.
Peace and the Marx Bros,
Lisa
Edward Hochman <eah01@msn.com> wrote:I understand and I have become a bit upset about this whole election itself. I am slowly coming to the opinion that people in general are getting tired of the election in general outside of this message center and it will be hobson's choice who wins. I have gotten upset at times. I tried to unsubscribe myself once recently and I went through the procedure even to write unsubscribe in the message box when I was asked to respond that way to fully unsubscribe and it would recognize me unsubscribing. I recently remembered I can change my email preferences to eliminate email altogether. I may do that sometime soon. It gets rediculous. I may change my vote to Dr. Quackenbush. Maybe if he wins the office of Pres, HARPO can give the State of the Union. It will be a speech everyone can remember.
ed Honk Honk
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
From: lisapallez@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:21:18 -0800
Subject: RE: [Dems2008] Re: Obama ad fires back at Hillary... See it here.
Thank you, Ed.
Sorry to question, but it really has been a bit snipey around here lately (not coming from you) and I was a bit paranoid I guess.
Debating and/or joking on point is great, but you're right about the personal bickering. I ditto your hope for this group.
~Lisa
Edward Hochman <eah01@msn.com> wrote:No I am not being facetious. I did mean what I said. Anytime someone comes in with a credible resource as you presented, well I respect that individual for doing that. Nobody can be knowledgeable about all things and we all approach things from different angles. This was part of a discussion and it verified certain feelings I had about the costs of this campaign. I hope that we can get away from the bickering and concentrate on the facts here.
Again, thank you Lisa.
Ed Hochman
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
From: lisapallez@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:09:05 -0800
Subject: RE: [Dems2008] Re: Obama ad fires back at Hillary... See it here.
Sorry if I offended you or anyone else here Ed, but facts and consideration of the issues have seemed to go the roadkill way here lately.
I appreciate you greatly, btw.
You aren't being facetious, are you ; )? I really wouldn't expect anything else at this point . . .
~Lisa
Edward Hochman <eah01@msn.com> wrote:Thank you much lisa for that site. sure is an eye opener.
ed
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
From: lisapallez@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:13:26 -0800
Subject: RE: [Dems2008] Re: Obama ad fires back at Hillary... See it here.
Dear Ed and all,
Sorry to break in with factual info sources again, but start with fec.gov and opensecrets.org.
Hope that helps!
Edward Hochman <eah01@msn.com> wrote:It is taking so much money to get just to the convention but can whoever wins get the money to go to convention considering the repub money machine? I wonder just what was spent just betweeen Clinton and Obama.
ed
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
From: Eamon1916@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:38:43 -0800
Subject: Re: [Dems2008] Re: Obama ad fires back at Hillary... See it here.
The candidate trailing ALWAYS wants to debate the candidate in the lead... Rule #1 of politics.
Slainte,Rob Harrington
----- Original Message ----
From: Sue Tucker <suectucker@netzero.com>
To: Dems2008@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:27:25 PM
Subject: [Dems2008] Re: Obama ad fires back at Hillary... See it here.
The reason she wants to debate is because she is running out of money and it's free advertising! Can't blame him for not wanting to....SueClinton's ad, which we posted about yesterday, accused
her Democratic rival of ducking from a debate with her
in Wisconsin. Obama's ad notes that they've already
had 18 debates and have two more scheduled. Then it
pivots to talk about his health care and housing
plans:It doesn't cost anymore to think positive!
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